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Dersimıc

25 Kanun 2007 kewt cı
Çım bıerze verorê pela
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Bıra [[Dersimıc]],
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!align="center"|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]<br/>Arşiv
seba iştırakê xo wes u war be. Labelê serê tabela be İngılızkiyo. Ez ney çarnenan ra Zazaki, çıke ita tenya gani be Zazaki bınuşiyo.
 
Her vurnayışi ra dıme gacega "'''verqayti bımocne/bıasne'''"y bıteqne u nuştey xo de bewne/qayt ke. Ebe na hal key ke nuştey to qediya, tewr peyniye de gocega "'''ena pele qeyd ke'''"y bıteqne u nuştey xo qeyd ke. --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 18:24, 3 Çele 2008 (UTC)
 
:You are welcome ''bıra''! --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 14:42, 4 Çele 2008 (UTC)
 
 
''Bıra'' Dersimıc it's OK! We know this all. I think ''bıra'' Xosere knows it as well. Please, add your examples to [http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferq%C3%AA_Zazakiy%C3%AA_z%C4%B1meyi_u_merkezi Ferqê fekanê Zazaki]. I see now, it was even you, who made the list at first. So it isn't necesary to repeat you. Greetings! --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 16:29, 29 Çele | Kanuno peyên 2008 (UTC)
 
== Mazanderani ==
 
Dear Bera Dersimij, Selamet esti? (San Yashayin) I appologize for my delay, Yeah, sometimes in some cases. '''re''' actually means '''of''', which gives noun an accusative behaviour, Just look above, You notice '''Wikipediya ra''', The term we use is '''dele'''. it cognates with persian dar, & kurdish le, Yeah you are right many of words prounced by '''l''' would be pronounced with '''r''' sound.
<br>
that text means:
in month wahmine of 1468 mazenderani, he was born in behshehr. (bemu = prefix be + emu = Zaza: Amey)
<br>--[[User:Parthava|Parthava]] 17:40, 9 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)
::Yes i have, But i rarely check it, Please give me your MSN ID, I'll add you through Yahoo! However I use yahoo sometimes, --[[User:Parthava|Parthava]] 14:13, 19 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)
 
----
|-
==Rıstımê (kokê) taê çekuyu sero==
|
Bıra Dersimıc, tı ki seba persunê ho wes u war be.
* [[User talk:Dêsımıc/Archiv1|Arşiv 1]]
Bıra nuşteunê huyê persu meestere (pak meke), şêrê vınderê. Belkia jüyo bin cı ra çiyê mıseno. Hama wa bo, ni bınê tarix u arşiv de nımıteyê, ita çiyê vindi nêbeno. :-)
*
 
|}
- Çekuya '''rocawan'''i dı qesu ra, yanê be '''roc''' u '''awan'''i ra yena pêra.
:* roc = ''güneş'' (be Tırki), ''Sonne'' (be Almanki)
:* awan = ''bayındır'' (be Tırki), ''bebaut, blühend, kultiviert'' (be Almanki), '''''ābād''''' (be Farski), '''''ava''''' (be Kurdki)
:Rocawani rê Kurdki de '''''rojava''''' vacino.
 
- Ez vaci '''''beran''''' Kurdki ra kewto zonê ma. Zeke to va(t), Zazakiyê ho '''veşn''' (variyantê cı: ''vesn'' ya ki ''vosn'')o.
 
- '''dae''' u '''mae''', rıstımê ni çekuyu hurdêmena ki reseno İrankiyê khani.
:* '''''dā'''''-, İrankiyo Khan de = lawnaene (''emzirmek'' (be Tırki), ''säugen'' (be Almanki))
:* '''''daēnu'''''-, Ewıstki (''Avesta'') de = may, lawnaoğe (''dişi, emziren'' (be Tırki), ''weiblich, säugend'' (be Almanki))
:* '''''māter'''''-, İrankiyo Khan de = mae (''anne'' (be Tırki), ''Mutter'' (be Almanki)) --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 01:28, 4 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)
 
To di bıra, na pesewe boyna ya nêmezet ya ki ğelet nusenane, qusır de qayt mebe. Ez ki endi oncia şêri cıla ho kuyi, sodırane rew urzenane ra. ;-) --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 02:00, 4 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)
 
== Rovicnaene ==
 
''Bıra Dersimıc'',
 
gerade das Präfix '''ro'''- verleiht diesem Verb die entsprechende Bedeutung. Es dient als Bedeutungsträger für abwärts- bzw. von oben nach unten gerichtete Bewegungen. Mit dem Präfix verändert sich das Grundverb in der eigentlichen Bedeutung. Solche Präverbien wie '''de'''-, '''ro'''-, '''ra'''- und '''we'''- etc. existieren allgemeingültig in allen Zazakidialekte, wenngleich bei manchen diese verschiedene Varianten haben und somit unterschiedlich geschrieben werden. --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 21:53, 9 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)
 
==peroc u verên==
Lieber ''bıra'' Dersimıc,
 
für '''peroc''' gibt es zwei weitere Varianten, wie '''peroj''' und '''peroz'''. Du kannst diese sicherlich regional selbst zuordnen. Dann gibt es drei regionale Synonyme (meistens in den Süddialekten) mit ihren Variaten, wie '''teştare''' (''n''), '''dehire'''/'''dıhire'''/'''dıhirı''' (''m'') und '''hele'''/'''helı'''/'''hellı''' (''m'').
 
Und für '''verên''' gibt es eine weitere Variante, wie '''verin'''.
 
Somit kannst du, von der Originalität und Allgemeingültigkeit her, '''peroc''' und '''verên''' nehmen. --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 08:15, 11 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)
 
 
:Das freut mich zu ''hören, bıra Dersimıc''. Bitte sehr, immer wieder gerne! :-) --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 10:50, 11 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)
 
==hesnaene u pêheşiyaene==
Bıra Dersimıc, qusırê mı de nia mede. Na rozu nêşikinane internet kunê, çıke komputerê mı giredae niyo. Nıka ebe şirketêna danane akerdene, hona ranêbi. Zanıtena mı ra gore manê nê çekuyu niaro:
* hesnaene = ''duymak''
* pêheşiyaene = ''haber almak, haberdar olmak''
Ebe Zazakiyê veroci na sate nêzanane çıturi vanê. --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 14:20, 23 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)
 
==Neuiranische Lautverschiebungen==
''Bıra Dersimıc'', die Tabelle hast du recht gut gemacht. Das ist eine sehr gute Arbeit, mach weiter so bıra.
Ich habe zur Zeit keinen Internetzugang von zu Hause aus. Ich werde allerdings deine Fragen beantworten, wenn ich die Gelegenheit und dafür gefunden habe; hab' noch ein bißchen Geduld ''bıra''. ''Weşiye de bımane''! --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 18:25, 1 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
===Altiranisch===
* Stimme = '''uânka'''-
* Weidenbaum = '''uaiti'''-
* Niere = '''urt'''('''a''')'''ka'''-
 
===qal u qese===
Das Wort '''qal''' könnte aus dem Arabischen sein. Da heisst es ''qala'' (sagen).
Und das Wort ''qese'' hat nicht mit dem türkischen Wort ''konuşmak'' zu tun. Da muss ich noch nachforschen. --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 11:52, 2 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
== Only Zazaki and English ==
 
We write only in Zazaki and English; German is also tolerable. Can you please conform this rule. I will erase your messages in other languages after two weeks. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 04:48, 3 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
== Zazakiyo Standardi ==
 
Please don't put words in Turkish on Zazakiyo Standardi page. Thanks for your contributions. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 20:12, 7 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 20:25, 7 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
== Meeting ==
 
let's meet sunday or saturday. I can give you a more specific day later. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 15:31, 22 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
:can you turn on your msn? --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 20:18, 26 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
==Bureaucrat access==
Hi Bıra, I need your votes to be "bureaucrat"..You can vote on Community portal page..thanks..--[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]] 17:22, 23 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
:Bıra go to the page "Portalê Cemaeti" and at the bottom you will see a section about "bureaucrat access" and "copy-paste" Asmen's sentence and sign..OK ?..thank you bıra..--[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]] 22:45, 23 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
== a question ==
 
can you translate me this sentence to turkish "Kam ke wazeno na ensiklopediye kewo". thank you. --[[User:Dersimıc|Dersimıc]] 17:04, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
:it means "İsteyen bu ansiklopediye girsin", "kim isterse bu ansiklopediye girsin"--[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]] 19:14, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
:şeno=eşkeno=şikino..--[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]] 20:40, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
:Ok, I corrected the taemplate..
bı+aro = biaro but biyaro may be wrong to write, because you can not see the root that it is '''yaro''' or '''aro'''..
Zazakiê Wikipediyaê Standardi Sero (if sero comes, the first words should be obliquus)--[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]] 20:45, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
:too much extra letters make our language difficult..Söylerken zaten iao harflerini aynı anda yutuyorsun, ama y'ler gereksiz orda onları olabildiğince az kullanmalıyız, dediğim gibi hangi eklerin geldiği belli olsun ve y'ler kelimenin kökünü görmemize engel olur..--[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]] 20:49, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
:'''xêrê xo''' : lütfen anlamında kullanılır, bir şey rica ederken söylenir
:bu standard zazaca meselesi bayağı bir zamanımızı alıyor.daha öncede dedim bunun yerine herkes kendi lehçesi dışında diğer Zazacaları öğrense bir sorun kalmaz, herkes birbiriyle anlaşır. bu tür konular daha çok katılımcı gerektirir 3-4 kişiyle olacak şeyler değil, o nedenle bu konuları erteleyelim.ilerde herkesin katılabileceği konferanslar toplantılar olursa ozaman ele alırız..ama wikipediamız yıpranıyor.benim fikrimi sen beğenmiyorsun, ben diğerininkini beğenmiyorum..bunlar şimdilik bizim işimiz değil. ama ilerde hallolacağına eminim. aslında bununyerine madde yazsan ve kendi gramer kurallarınla yazsan daha ii olur, çok vakit kaybediyoruz. bence zazakipedia da her lehçeden makaleler yazılmalı yeterki lehçesine göre doğru yazılsın başka sorun olmaz. tamam bıra, lütfen bu tartışmaları geniş katılımlar olmadan yapmayalım.--[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]] 23:12, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
Anlayışın için sağol bıra, bu standard zazaca meselesi çıktı, ortalık karıştı..yani bu tartışmalar bize ve wikipediaya zarar verdiği için diyorum.ki bazı arkadaslar küstü (Faruk İremet bıra gibi)..bu sorunları wikipedia da tartışarak çözemeyiz. ancak 100-200 tane Zazaca uzmanı akademisyen, aydın vs konferanslar yapar ancak öyle olur..Senin çalışmlarını tebrik ediyorum, ve devamını diliyorum, bence bütün tespitlerini ve birikimlerini sakla iyi koru, elbette bize ilerde çok yardımcı olacaktır..Bımane weşiye de..bu tartışmalar için bir bir Zazaca dil forum sitesine ihtiyacımız var, vardı bitane kapandı..--[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]] 23:28, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
:I think we should accept Vate standards and impove it with taking out the Kurdish influence. Theirs flows well, and you don't feel any heavy influence of a certain Zazaki dialect. Here the written language has a North-Zaza flavor. And that makes other Zazas not to embrace our Wikipedia. Vate guys already had a lot of conferences, so we don't need to rediscover America. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 02:15, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
== seyr kerdene, niya daene, qayt kerdene ==
 
1)seyr kerden, 2)niya dayen, 3)qayt kerden < bunlar ücüsünün arasinda fark ne, mana olarak fark var mi? sag ol. --[[User:Dersimıc|Dersimıc]] 15:16, 30 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
:maney hirêmena çekuyan hema hema yewo, mabên de zaf ferq çiniyo. [[Tırki]] de maney nê çekuyan noyo: ''1)seyretmek/izlemek, 2)bakmak 3)bakmak/birisine göz kulak olmak/(bebege) bakmak''--[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]] 21:35, 30 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
 
== I support you bira ==
 
Don't worry. I am behind you. This wikipedia is for all of us. It is mine, it is yours, and it is everybody's. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 06:21, 6 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
 
== More examples ==
 
I have some questions/comments for your examples. I think words like "Dost" and "Derya" is not evolved in Zazaki. Dost is not even used in our language. If it is used in Zazaki, it is used as a borrowed word. The same think is for Derya. Also, are you sure that "Diyan" is a Zazaki word? I understand "dest", but certainly not Dost, Derya, and Diyan. They didn't evolved in Zazaki.
 
What do words "vic", "rēc-", "serpez" "vez-" and "zehr" mean? Thanks for the new words. I'll put them there as I have time.
 
Thanks for your offer for editing the welcome text on the front page. I will help you after my finals.
--[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 05:10, 11 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
 
== Two things ==
 
Can you please use the main page's discussion page only for issues relating to the main page. For Zazaki grammer issues, please use pages Zazaki gramer. Also can you please write either in English or Zazaki. Otherwise, I will start to erase them. Thank you bro. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 18:02, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
 
== Congrad for your new article ==
 
Good start. You need to use dictionary more to avoid turkish words. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 21:06, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
 
:I understand. It was also difficult for me. I give you some tips about haow to be better at writing Zazaki when we talk on MSN next week Friday. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 22:01, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
 
==Bıra meqaleya toya sıfteyêne/verêne xêr bo:)==
Mı meqaleya to diye, ez zaf biyo sa:)
Umıd kono ke, to her daim Wikipediya ma rê meqalu bınusê..
Bımane weşiye de..--[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]] 11:22, 17 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
 
==A little help: [[Eçer]]==
 
Hi! I'm a Hungarian Wikipedia editor, my name is Norbert Kiss. I'm very proud of my village and I would like to read about it in a lot of langauges. I translated already it into 10 languages (now it is in 42 languages), but I can't speak Zazaki. Could you help me? My village's English page is this: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ecser Ecser]. Could you translate the page of Ecser into Zazaki? Then just link the side into the English version and I will see it, or you could write me, when it is ready. My Hungarian Wikipedia side is: [http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Eino81 My profile].
 
Thank you!
Norbert
 
==Eğitmek==
We use '''resnais, ra-resnais, musnais...''' for the word "eğitmek"
*Mı lacê xo rınd resna (ra).. (Oğlumu iyi eğittim)
*Mı lacê xo rınd musna (Oğlumu iyi eğittim)
*Kutık rınd musno/resno (köpeği iyi eğitmiş.)
Also you should ask to Asmen and Mirzali..Maybe they use other words..
 
*musnais : 1) eğitmek 2) alıştırmak
*cı muskıtis :1) göstermek 2) öğretmek
*resnais : eğitmek, yetiştirmek (mecaz: büyütmek)
 
Bımane weşiye de..----[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]]<sup>[[User Talk:Belekvor|mı rê mesaj bırusne]]</sup> 22:18, 27 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
 
 
==teqwim==
"... rocê 12yıno" ğeleto, raşta xo '''"...roca 12ina/3yina/..."''' (fem, masculin rule, roce is fem.)----[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]]<sup>[[User Talk:Belekvor|mı rê mesaj bırusne]]</sup> 12:07, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
 
== Wikipediya Zazaki de 3000 nuştey ==
 
Bıra, can you help me? Today you are busy or not? Common, we can make the number of articles to access "3000"..We can write and finish all the "365 roci" today. the first 6-7 months are mine and the others are yours, ok?----[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]]<sup>[[User Talk:Belekvor|mı rê mesaj bırusne]]</sup> 13:04, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
 
You can start the 7th or 8th month. Now wait a while..I will a "vernuşte" for the new text with original Zazaki words..----[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]]<sup>[[User Talk:Belekvor|mı rê mesaj bırusne]]</sup> 13:11, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
:Look at here [http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Temmuze], and continue from the 1 Temmuze..I will make the templates for the months, later..Take it easy:))----[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]]<sup>[[User Talk:Belekvor|mı rê mesaj bırusne]]</sup> 13:16, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
:You are fast than me:))----[[User:Belekvor|Belekvor]]<sup>[[User Talk:Belekvor|mı rê mesaj bırusne]]</sup> 13:17, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
 
== Some moths has two variations ==
 
From south and north, it is different, some month names are different. Can you please include two in some months:
Cele/kanuno peyen, Cucige/Sibate, Marte/adare, Gulane, Hazirane, Temuze, Tabaxe, Paiza Veren/keskelun, Paizo werteyen/Trisno werteyen, Paizo peyen/Tirisno peyen, Kanune Veren/Qagande
 
Otherwise other won't understand. Mirzali just put his own dialect, and ignored others. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 13:49, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
 
:You can check the exact spelling in the taqwim page. We also wrote thesse variations way in the system. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 13:50, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
 
::It is better to do it now. You don't have to goback al the time. You can check the history of main page to see month names.
 
::Y:ou should do it everywhere. This are the things that makes others pissed off. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 13:56, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
 
:::Here are the names: Cele/kanuno peyen, Cucige/Sibate, Marte/adare, Gulane, Hazirane, Temuze, Tabaxe, Paiza Veren/keskelun, Paizo werteyen/Trisno werteyen, Paizo peyen/Tirisno peyen, Kanune Veren/Qagande
:::You need to use the exact names as the system does. Otherwise it won't recognize your articles when the comes. You need to look at the history page of the main page to see the exact writing. Unfortunately I have to go to work now. Thanks for your afford. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 14:08, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
 
 
I am sorry for the confusion probably you should stop creating day pages. Until we discuss or standardize month names. Otherwise, system will nor recognize your edits. Tell Belekvor to stop also. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 14:27, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
 
:Unfortunately, I have to go work. I am late already. We can create a standardization page in Statadard Zazaki page. I can create it when I come back. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 14:33, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
 
== Meetings ==
 
Please check this out: [[Wikipedia:Portalê cemaeti/Wikipediya Zazaki Adminstrative Meetings|Wikipediya Zazaki Adminstrative Meetings]] --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 05:14, 11 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
 
== New Alphabet? ==
 
26 standard Latin letters + á, é, í, ú, ó, (we may not need á and ó ) + ć, ś
 
So we have:
 
 
a, á, b, c, ć, d, e, é, f, g, h, í, i, j, k, l, m. n, o, ó, p, q, r, s, ś, t, u, ú, v, w, x, y, z
 
 
You can create á, é, í, ú, ó by presseing (Ctrl and ' ) then (Ctrl and a, e, i, u, or o). But you can't create ć, ś. This is a problem. But if we use ć, ś, it will set us apart from others around us. But we might stay with Turkish/Kurdish ç and ş.
 
En example:
 
 
 
"Delíl Xídír - be namey hoyo raśtikén Hídír Kahraman - yew senatkaré Zazayo. Xozat de dewa Mezra Sure de maya ho ra biyo. Heta níka dí albuman be zíwané Zazaki veti. Beho kílaman zi beste kerd. Kılamé ho Ríndeka Dersimi zaf namdar biyo, Diyar ra u senatkaré binan ra vaciya. Ewro Delíl Xídír Awístírya de maneno u seba muziké zazaki gurino. Zaf śewan u programané televizyonan ré veciyayo."
 
 
 
What do you think? --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 05:35, 25 Heziran 2008 (UTC)
 
Please don't write this idea on Zaza forums. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 05:37, 25 Heziran 2008 (UTC)
 
 
==Ph/Kh==
In my opinion are this letters of asmens alphabet unnecessary. as example: phanc < here is panc enough, or khan < here is kan enough.
 
he self writes that this letters are special for nothern dialect: http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfabey_Zazaki#Alfabe_ra_q.C3.AAri_veng.C3.AA_bini --[[User:Dersimıc|Dersimıc]] 19:34, 30 Heziran 2008 (UTC)
 
:If ph is a northern Zazaki specific, why do Asmen is using it for standard? I can't believe this. I am really getting out of my mind. How could we convince people for our standards? --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 03:57, 1 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
==Alphabet==
Why are against the alphabet. Can please write your arguments one by one like number 1, number 2, and so on. I want to take the opposing arguments systematically. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 04:37, 2 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
:Of course people of venge-vac-forum won't accept anything. They don't even accept standard phonetic table that you put a lot of afford in it with historical examples. They only like to write the same shit on internet forums over and over again. That's all they do. Vate of course won't accept it because they like to lick Kurdish-nationalist's asses. People like me and like you, who are against erosion of Zaza identity in the face of Kurdish/Turkish nationalism, will happily use it.
 
:You seemed to be concerned about practicality of the alphabet. You say most Zazas have Turkish keyboard, so it is better to use Turkish diacritics. Do you know what is most practical for Zazas? It is forgetting the Zazaki language and speaking Turkish. Yes, that is most practical. And, many Zazas are not teaching Zaza language to their children just because of this practicallity issues.
 
:Of course we want to make things easier for people. That's why I choose letters that can be created by all keyboards without copy-pasting. If people really want to preserve their culture, they should show some afford. If people don't show some afford, it means they don't care about their Zaza identity already. That's why I think we should separate Zaza diacritics from Turkish/Kurdish, and contribute to separate Zaza identity. I only have 3 diacritics, which make things even more simple. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 05:46, 3 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
 
== zehf / zaf, tici ==
No matter bıra. It seems that 'zehf' has a semitic root, maybe Assyrıain? I didn't find it in Arabic.
Tici, I don't think that this is from taw and roc. "tab-" exists in zazaki: "tewt" 'trance' (nothern) or "tewaene" 'to pain' (southern) "serey mı teweno" --[[Asmen|Asmên]], 4.7.08, 16:05
 
== Tembur ==
 
Can you look at my tembur entry:
[[Wikipedia talk:Zazakiyê Wikipediyao Standard/Fonetikê Zazakiyê Standardi]]
 
Can you look at this:
http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Zazakiy%C3%AA_Wikipediyao_Standard/Amari
 
In Hozat-Ovacik is "thembur" used. --[[Karber:Asmen|Asmên]], 11.7.2008, 17:51 (CET)
 
 
== tı/to, çew/kes ==
In East Dersim Rct. '''to''' is the analogue taken from the Obl. '''tu''' is only a variant from '''tu''' because some one syllable -O's in the auslaut tend to an -u. In Solhan e.g. the 2. sg. rectus and obl. is '''tı''', which has formly fallen together with the rct., but actually a weakened form from '''tuı'''.
 
I don't know where ''çew'' comes from but it's very improbably a palatalisation or a variant of "kes" (I forgot to write that, sorry). "kes" is iranian, why should it be Arabic? Old Persian "kaş[çiy" 'anyone', Avesta "kas[çit 'someone', "kas[na", old indian "kas", Pazendi (Middle Persian) "kas, kasi[ça". (look Paul Horn p. 190, 851. kes) --[[Karber:Asmen|Asmên]], 11.7.2008, 17:51 (CET)
No, rct. 2. sg. '''tı''' (like in the most verbaculars), obl. to --[[Karber:Asmen|Asmên]], 11.7.2008, 23:02 (CET)
:What do you mean by the word "improbably"? Çew is a Zazaki word, and "kes" is an Arabic word. Wherever it comes, it should be the standard just because it is the only Zazaki word for "one" as a pronoun. It might as well has the similar origin with "çı" and "ça" words. Anyhow, since it is the only variant, it is the only option for standard Zazaki. Insisting on usage of "kes" instead of "çew" would be a grave mistake in our efforts to a standard Zazaki. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 01:39, 12 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
:: Bira Xosere, ask please your Professor, "kes" is not an arabic word, from where you have this? It was even in Middle Persian "kas".
:: "kes" is not a loanword, its a pure iranic word. So nobody can replace "kes" with "çew". Because both are not variants of the same word. And if they were variants of the same word, "kes" were the most original variant, look to Middle Persian.
 
:: Middle Persian: "was kas" "many people" (in zazaki: zaf kesi), Source: Prof. Dr. Ernst Kausen
:: Still in Kurdish and New Persian is "kes" (Persian: kas) in using and it has no any relation with arabic.
:: If you ask your professor, then you must say: "kas" as in meaning "person".
 
:: '''PS:''' "kez" in turkish for "defa" is a pure turkish word, look to nisanyan and it has no any relation to iranic "Kes". '''Is "Varon" in Central Zazaki a loanword of turkish "varolmak"???'''
 
::Why you think, "kes" in iranian were arabic? Which sources write this?
 
::'''PS2:''' Also Southern Zazas do use "kes". "çew" is using only in the Central dialect and its maybe a changed form from "kes", all other iranic people use "kes" and its definitly pure iranic.
 
::PS3: Read also asmens new answer
:: '''''"kes" is iranian, why should it be Arabic? Old Persian "kaş[çiy" 'anyone', Avesta "kas[çit 'someone', "kas[na", old indian "kas", Pazendi (Middle Persian) "kas, kasi[ça". (look Paul Horn p. 190, 851. kes)'''''
 
:: '''The word for "someone" was until to Old Iranian "kas" (even in Old Indian "kas"), in Zaza Alphabet "kes".'''
 
:: If "kes" is an arabic word, then i am a jew. Before month you again wrote that "kes" were arabic and didnt give any sources. --
 
:: And the rests of "kes" are even in the Central Dialect:
 
:: In the word "her kes", why not "her çew"? Here you see, that "kes" is older. I found about "kes" also in Nisanyan something, read:
 
:: '''http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/search.asp?w=herkes&x=0&y=0'''
 
:: '''~ Fa har kas a.a. & Fa har her + <font color=red>Fa kas birisi, kimse (= Ave kas- a.a. )</font>'''
 
:: And still in todays Zazaki, in todays Kurdish and New Persian is "kes" is using for "kimse", example
:: North Zazaki: kes çino? = kimse yok mu?
:: Kurdish: Kes tuneye? = Kimse yok mu?
:: Persian: kasi nist? = Kimse yok mu?
 
:: Now I see in the dicussion page of "cekuye geriban", that i posted the nisanyan-source before month, but although you believe nothing, so its not makes sense do discuss here further anything. I am tired to repeat me every 3. month.
 
:: Please ask your professor. --[[User:Dersimıc|Dersimıc]] 15:24, 12 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
 
== bıgêrên, gure, xebat, aşmi/aşme ==
 
- "bıgêrên" is 3. Pl. subjunctive (Konjunktiv), it's built after "şaene" (şikiyaene)
 
- "xebetiyaene" is also used in Varto, Hınıs, I think Kurd. loanword. If "gırwe/gure" has to do with Armenian, I don't know, I thought about it, but it has to be researched.
 
- "aşmi/aşme" has to do with MP "âyişm" and not with Arm. "amis". But I think "aşmi" could the older variant, if the feminine -i ending is inherited from old indo-iranian -î (cf. "vrka-" 'wolf, verg', "vrkî-" 'female wolf, deleverge'. [[Karber:Asmen|Asmên]] 13ê Hezirana 2008., 03:00 (CET)
 
== Zazaki standards ==
 
You did an amazing job with Zazaki standard pages. I really appreciate it a lot. You add an enormous value to this Wikipediya. That’s why I think you should stay here and continue doing that great job. I think you should be officially in charge of that project.
 
I know Mirzali made you very angry. You call almost everybody ignorant or child. He also told me this. I told him how many times that he is damaging this project by chasing people away. I knew his sexual preferences before and I already saw that site. But that is not important here. The important thing is that he needs stop chasing people away.
 
Anyways, I think you are very angry. Calm down and let’s do a solid job here. Thanks. [[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 16:45, 18 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
: Hi, thanks. During such respectless people are in Wikipedia, i can not remain here. Only if he self leaves, i can remain. Its not possible to work with such respectless people.
 
Thanks of his respectless also other usesers leaved this site, nobody is here except you, belekvor, asmen, I and mirzali. --[[User:Dêsımıc|Dêsımıc]] 16:50, 18 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
::He needs to change obviously. Otherwise, it is hard to work things out here. I send him a message. I know he is chasing people away. He told me once that not everybody should write here. He can'yt do that anymore --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 16:56, 18 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
::: Thanks of him nobody is here, except Asmên, Belekvor and You. He should let the admin status. then i remain. he destroyed the whole project. --[[User:Dêsımıc|Dêsımıc]] 17:00, 18 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
:::: Anybody who contributes here is welcomed. This is a voluntary community project. If people stop contributing then they should leave their posts. As long as, they are part of it, nobody can say you should leave. This is an obvious rule here. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 17:08, 18 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
::::: Community project? Mirzali does think that Wikiepdia belongs him. You self wrote, that he want before a year, that only he should write. Wuhahahahaa, so a charakterless man. Thanks of him nobody is here. Other people can discuss normal, only he must chase people. --[[User:Dêsımıc|Dêsımıc]] 17:17, 18 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
:::::: Yeah he told me once that not everybody should write here. When I invited Diyarbakirij here. He told me that Diyarbekirij should not write here. He told me that he can write here slowly. I told him. This a community project. You know I think you definitely must stay here for the sake of Zazaki language. I know you get angry. I too get angry. Can you please stay here for Zazaki and this project. I would be very happy if you will. Thank you. [[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 17:26, 18 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
Xosere bra, thank you for your support. I get angry because of Mirzali's constant insults to me and to my work. He is doing this since I am here. This is very discouraging. I couldn’t take it anymore and I get very angry.
 
However I think you have a good point. We should work together for Zazaki. And since you firmly insist that I should stay here and work for our language, I will stay here for your insistence. Mirzali also should stop insulting me and my work. We work together for a better Zazaki and there is a lot needs to be done for standardization. I believe I can add value in this respect to Zazaki Wikipediya with your encouragement. Thank you once again for helping to take the right decision. --[[User:Dêsımıc|Dêsımıc]] 17:23, 18 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
:Thank you very much for staying here. You made me very happy. Mirzali needs stop insulting your work. This is a community project. This is not anybody's own project. I am sure you will add a lot of value here. Thank you once again for your right decision [[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 17:28, 18 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
::Also, I think you should be officially responsible for standardization process. You definetely put a lot of time in this. You deserve it. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 17:32, 18 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
Güzel kardeşim, bizim tartışmamız ne ile ilgili, sen olayı nerelere çektin. Sabahtan beri olanca küfürleri saydın, ben bir şey dedim mi? Olağandır kızabilirsin, ama kişisel saldırı ve hakaret doğru bir şey mi sence. Sen beni nerden tanıyorsun ki, seni insan yerine koymamışım? Sana ne dedim ki ben? Yazdığımız şeyler meydanda. Ben ortaya genel olarak konuşuyorum, sen üzerine alınıyorsun. Laflarım çok mu ağır geldi? Yalnızca ''childish'' ve ''stupid'' kelimelerinden gücendinse yine de senden özür diliyorum.
 
Daha önce bana sorduklarını cevaplamadım mı sana? Bir süredir sağlık sorunlarımdan dolayı yoktum. Kimseyi hakir ve küçük görecek biri varsa, o en son ben olurum. Kızgınlığından böyle asılsız duygulara kapılma lütfen, bilakis güçlü olmaya bak.
 
Ben şimdiye kadar kimseye dememişim burası yalnız benimdir, herkese açıktır. (Bıra Xosere'ye de teessüf ediyorum yani, ona gönderdiğim e-mailler arşivimde, isterse gönderebilirim kendisine. Nerde yazmışım böyle bir şeyi. Ben sadece yapılan hatalardan dolayı üzüldüğümü ve bu yüzden kendisine sitem etmiştim. Şimdi onun da bana kızmaktan ötürü olayı buraya taşıması gerekmezdi. İnsan tartışırken bile biraz dürüst olur. Neyse, yine de benim hatam varsa, bıra Xosere'den de özür diliyorum burdan.)
 
Yanlışları düzeltmek, birilerini hataları yüzünden uyarmak kabahat mi? Oysa ki başkaları bizim emeğimizi hiçe sayıyor üstelik saygısızlık ediyorlar. Ben bu projeyi taa başından beri destekliyor ve projenin gelişmesi için iştirak ediyorum.
 
Mesela, çoğunluğun fikri alınmadan, tek başımıza oturmuş bir alfabeyi, o veya bu gibi şahsi fikirlerden dolayı durup dururken değiştirmek de nerden çıktı? Biri bir şey demeye kalmasın sen hooop tutup hemen değiştiriyorsun. Yani bir öyle diyorsun, bir böyle. Ben de anlamıyorum ki ne istediğini? Benim de kızdığım şey bu. Asmên bırayı da gücendirip kovdunuz. Sıra bana mı geldi? --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 21:10, 18 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
 
:Why this sudden gear change to Turkish. Anyways, you know that you have a good tract record of calling people “ignorant” or “child” and despising their work. You do this since we start this project. You used similar words yesterday in your discussion with me. Look, I don’t care if you call me “ignorant” or anything else. But that is me. Most people got angry and left. This must change man. Challenge their arguments wisely, but don’t insult people’s characters with words like “ignorant” or “child”.
 
:Yeah we know you didn’t say that this place is your's. But the way you act and by discouraging others to write here, you are acting as if you own this project. You didn’t want Diyarbekirij. Here is a quotation from that email:
 
:“Peropiya (Diyarbekirij’s nick) arkadas bize ne gibi yardimda bulunabilir dogrusu kuskuluyum. Bize akli basinda, sag duyulu ve tekniksel becerisi olan iyi birine ihtiyacimiz var... o kisiler daha kendi yöresinin Zazacasini bile dogru dürüst yazamiyorlar ki, çogunun bildigi Zazaca, ya kulaktan dolma veya sonradan yarim yamalak ögrendididir.”
 
:I didn’t want to put this here, but you accuse me for being dishonest about this. So I have to put this quotation here. Well here we go. People can see what you told me. You send me similar messages several times.
 
:Well you talking aphabet again. If some people trying to use weird letters like ü and weird words like cüab or binüse, I’ll of course change it. This is not experimentation place. At the end we reached a conclusion. I forced people to get into the discussion by showing I mean business. It is my tactic. I mean business, I mean hard work. Otherwise, people wouldn’t care. Discussion is good. I like it a lot.
 
:Nobody told Asmen to leave. He is already not participating since this project began. I think he had this idea of being the man behind the curtains. He was making ten or nine edits a month. Look, he has more time for forums than wikipediya. So I told him this is not fair since you are an admin; you need to take some responsibilities here and do some cleaning job here. He said that he doesn’t have time and He is going to remove himself from admin position. That’s all. He is a user here. It doesn’t make any difference for him since he rarely participate him. He can do the same functions as he did here before. But he didn’t really remove himself from the post. That's why I wrote him a message how to do it. That’s all. [[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 00:05, 19 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
:: Mirzali, ben kimsenin beni elistirmesinden rahatsizlik duymuyorum, Asmên de beni kac sefer elistirdi ve hic bi zaman ona bunun yüzünden kirilmadim. Sen ama elistrimekle kalmiyorsun, üstelik adami asagliyorsun. Ben o "ü" harfini Xosere Sitede "In Discussion" yazmisti diye ekledim, cünkü "ü, ú, û" hakkinda tartisiliyordu, benim degisikligimden önce o "or" Xosere tarafindan yazilmisti. Hemde hatirlarsan kendim û fikrini getirdim, hep Zazacanin birligi icindim ve hic bi zaman Zazacaya zarar vermek istemedim.
 
:: Benim yaptiklarimi yanlis buluyorsan, onlari degistire bilirsin, burasi Wikipedia'dir, hekesin degistirme hakki vardir. Yanlislarim varsa, yanlislarimin neden dogru olmadigimi anlata bilirsin, ama sen bunun yerine hemen her sefer kisisel oldun ve beni bir biseye yaramayan olarak ilan ettin. Sanki burda ajanmisim, düsmanmisim gibi, bilerek kafakarisiklik getirmek istemisim gibi, sadece zarar verenmisim gibi hava yarattin.
 
:: Bu Alfabeyi de ben kurmadim. En basda sadece fikirlerimi aktardim, sonra ama kendim tespit ettim, Türk Alfabesinin daha iyi tercih oldugunu ve hatta sizin Enstitünüzü Xoserenn önünde savundum. Tesekkür yerine, yine senden hakaret yedim.
 
:: Standard sitesinde hatalar görüyorsan, düzelte bilirsin, kimse buna karsi degil. Ama insanlara karsi kisisel ifadeler kullandigin sürece, insanlari Zazalikdan sogutuyorsun, senin yüzünden kac sefer Türkcü olmaya kalkistim. Vateye de mailler yazdim, bazen aptalca fikirlerden bile bulundum, yine de bana hic bi zaman senin gibi davranmadilar, hep dostca karsiladilar, ve bir genc olarak Zazacaya deger verdigimden mutlu oldular.
 
:: Her size göre hata yapan yada hatali düsünen kisiye saldirirsan, Zaza birligini nasil kurucaksin? Bizim insanlar bu saygisizligin yüzünden hep birbirlerini sattilar ve birlik olamadilar. Bizim Zazacilar hem Ferhat Tunca hakaret ediyorlar, hem onun neden Zazaci olmadigini anliyamiyorlar ve kendisini Kürtcü oldugu icin kiniyorlar.
 
:: Ben de bazen ZazaYasar gibilerine karsi kirici oldum, ama bu üslubu sizden ögrendim. Daha önce hep uzlasma pesindedim ve ZazaYasar gibileri size (Asmên ve Mirzali) yakinlastirmak isterdim.
 
:: Homoseksüellere de karsi biseyim yok, tam tersi, en büyük Homoseksüel hayranlarindanim. Kalbimi kirdin diye, ben de senin kalbini kirmak istedim. --[[User:Dêsımıc|Dêsımıc]] 07:27, 19 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
 
::: Canın sağ olsun be güzel kardeşim! Ben bundan dolayı kırılmadım, yoksa sana yazmazdım. Üstelik Türkçe yazdım ki beni yine yanlış anlamıyasın.
 
::: Ben gizli saklı yaşayan biri değilim. Başka sitelerdeki yazılarımın bir şekilde sizlere veya başkalarına ulaşabildiğinin bilincindeyim. Durumumu aile içinde herkes biliyor. Ben bunun kavgasını 24 yıl önce verdim. Başımdan hatta 2 evlilik geçti (kadınlarla).
 
::: Bu benim kendi özel hayatım. Ancak kişiliğimin yalnızca cinsel eğilimime indirgenmesini de istemem doğrusu. Çevremde beni bilen ve tanıyan herkes beni olduğum gibi seviyor ve sayıyor. Durumumun bilinmesinden de korkmuyorum. Fakat daha bilmeyen varsa da bilmesi gerekmez, yani alnımda eşcinselim diye gezmiyorum ortalıkta. Normal işime gücüme ve uğraşlarımın peşine giderim günlük hayatta.
 
::: Bilmem anlıyor musun beni? Sizleri birer kardeş, benden büyükleri de birer abi olarak görüyorum. Dostlarıma farklı gözlerle bakmam, bunu da bilmeni isterim. Olayı aslında daha önce bizzat bıra Xosere ve bıra Asmên'e intikal etmeyi düşündüm, ancak dışlanmaktan ve yanlış anlaşılmaktan çekindim. Onlar da bana sorabilirlerdi, anlatırdım hani.
 
::: Neyse asıl konumuza dönelim yine. İngilizce'de ben bazı tabirleri Türkçe veya Almanca'daki gibi ağır ve kırıcı bulmuyorum. Bilmiyorum nedendir, bana bu gibi kelimeler İngilizce'de daha sevimli ve şakavari geliyor. Aslında bu uslüp Zazaca'da da var. Örneğin bizde yaşlılarımıza karşı direkt ''kokım'' (erkek için)/ ''kokımi'' (bayan için) diye hitap edilebiliyor. Bu Türkçe'deki gibi 'hey ihtiyar' ya da 'hey moruk' gibi dendiğinde çok itici ve saygısızca geliyor. Ama Zazaca'da durum öyle değil, bizdeki ifadeler daha sevimli. Bundan dolayıdır ki eleştirilerim belki de yanlış anlaşılıyor, yani sanki birilerini aşağılar ve yerden yere vurur gibi geliyor olabilir. Oysa ki öyle bir düşüncem asla yok. Ama bundan sonra yine de sözlerime dikkat etmeye çalışacağım. Bu vesile ile, selamlar! --[[User:Mirzali|Mirzali]] 09:23, 19 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
Mewzu ake
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