Wikipedia:Portalê cemaeti/Other issues: Ferqê çımraviyarnayışan

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==*[[The language of diq.wikipedia==]]
*[[What's going to be the of diq.wikipedia]]
In diq.wikipedia, it is supposed to be written in [http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=diq diq] (Dimli) dialect/language. However, today although there are over a hundred articles written in diq dialect, the majority of articles and system messages are not written in the diq dialect/language. They are written in a "standard" language which also includes [http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=kiu kiu] dialect/language. This standard language is not understandable by Dimli speakers and it is a creation of only a handful of people who are not native speakers of Dimli. I, as the proposer of this Wikipedia and one of the sysops, believe that here only in diq dialect/language articles and system messages should be written. [http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=kiu kiu] dialect/language is illegible to have its own wikipedia. --[[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 17:26, 4 Tebaxe 2008 (UTC)
 
: Why should Kirmancki a own langauge, which linguist say this? List me the differents between the Central and Nothern dialect, but not phonetic differents. Let us show what words in Northern Dialect do exist, they are not exist in Southern or Central. Central Zazas as ZazaYasar, they can speak their language perfectly, can understand the Northern dialect well.
 
: You even didnt understand simple words as "game" and thought the reason were the northern dialect. Words like "coka", "tepiya", "tayê" and "suke" do also exist in Southern and some of them also in Central. And also Southern Zazas use a own phonetical word for "can", they use:
 
: '''southern zazaki:''' o şeno = he cans, '''northern zazas:''' o şikino, '''central:''' uı eşkenu. So here is also the problem not the northern mouth, that you didnt understand this word.
 
: you say, you can understand the varto mouth, while the varto dialect is also northern zazaki. show us the differences between the varto and dersim dialects, there are only little phonetical differences.
 
: So learn your language better. (also I self should learn Zazaki better)
 
:'''ps:''' now i see thank of Mirzali, that the verb "pêsena" of rencber aziz' song also exist in the northern dialect. so we have now only one word difference, the rest are phonetical differences, and this differences do exist in all languages. and this one word difference Sağyer is anyway a village name.
 
: also the german dialects have all their own codes, and i can understand ALL german dialects problemless, because i speak perfectly german:
 
: we speak in our city beside the standard german the bavarian mouth, and we have not any problems. but bavaria have an own code as dialect
 
: http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=bar
 
: '''Ps2:''' The "-do, -dê"-system for the "one, a" do exist also in the southern dialect, i will show for you a text of Koyo Berz for this.
 
: Here the text of Koyo Berz (use the Crtl + F function to search):
 
: http://www.kormiskan.info.se/
 
: '''Qandê nê semedi zi pêsero ka Kormiskani ziwandê Zazaki di '''tarixê do neweyo''''''
: Here means "tarixê do neweyo" < bir yeni tarihdir.
 
: Don't confuse the "do" here in the sentence with the "do" for verbs, to build the future. "newe" is not a verb, so it means "a new tarix". The "do, dê"-system '''for "one, a"''' does exist in the southen dialect ''definitly'', also asmen said this. --[[User:Dersimıc|Dersimıc]] 18:55, 4 Tebaxe 2008 (UTC)
 
::Kirmancki could be a dialect or language. That is not an issue here. The [http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=diq diq] code does not include Kirmancki micro-language, a term used by ethnologue--or let's say [http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=kiu Kirmancki] dialect. The language that is pushed by two other sysops here is just a creation of theirs that does not exist in reality. They are mixing diq and kiu micro-languages, but this is not understandable by diq speakers. That's creating confusion among speakers. That's why we should write in diq in diq.wikipedia and kirmancki speakers should have their kiu.wikipedia. [[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 19:41, 4 Tebaxe 2008 (UTC)
 
::: PS3: The southern Zazas do use also the "no, na, nê"-System for "this", you can see this in all southern texts, in the texts of Faruk Iremet, Koyo Berz etc.
 
::: There is no a united "Southern Dialect", between the Central Dialect and Southern Dialect are also big differences. The only reason why get "kiu" and "diq" their own codes are phonetical reasons.
 
::: Do you have a statistic what evindec that the standard language ist not understanble? What points are not understanble? --[[User:Dersimıc|Dersimıc]] 19:43, 4 Tebaxe 2008 (UTC)
 
:::: Also, the language that is used by only two sysops here does not represent neither diq nor kiu. This language is a constructed language, and there is a separate procedure for constructed languages in Wikipedia. [[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 19:48, 4 Tebaxe 2008 (UTC)
 
::::: Which words do not exist in the central or southern dialect. The standard language what Asmên and Mirzali use is not artifical or constructed. The words are using of the normal people in the daily life. You self must create a so-called "Construced language".
 
::::: There are also phonetic differences between the southen and central dialect. Which word you will take for example "day"? Southern Zazas do use "rojı", Central Zazas "ruec". Which word you will take for "language"? Central: zun, Southern: zıwan and other variants. What will you take for "he says", "vun" or "vano"?
 
::::: So it comes to the same result, you must also create then a new dialect, which is not using in the real life. And the only difference in this new "Construced" language will be, that it will be not has 1-5 variants of Northern, as "de(r)". Say me, what other variants except things of "de(r)" (Southern: dı, Cermig Mouth: dı[r]) and "be" (Southern: bı) are from the Northern? In which words are the northern variants without reason in favorism? The most variants are from Southern and Central, and we Northern Zazas have no any problem with this.
 
::::: And its harder to create a standard only with Southern Zazaists and Central Zazas, because the most of them are Regionalists as Faruk Iremet, who even not accept "roc". Or as ZazaYasar.
 
::::: Thank of Asmen and Mirzali we could create some standards. Only this two people are ready for compromises and work linguistic. All other Zazas Intellectuals are regionalists in the thinking.
 
::::: If you are for it, that the Chaos in Zazaki should remain, then this damags only Zazaki. Its not makes sense, to let phonetical variants of the same word. Zazaki can not develope hisself, if there is no standard language.
 
::::: You clip yourself self everytime to the language name, but dont think about the real results. You will dont enreach ''anything'' if you split the Northern Zazas from other Zazas. You will have futher the same phonetic problems, also without Northern Zazas.
 
::::: The problem is not, that you dont can understand. The problem is, that your Zazaki is not enough good (also my zazaki is not enough good). Then you were don't say, that you can understand the Varto dialect and not the Dersim dialect and show me the song "ere nina", which is in the Dersim dialect 100% the same. Between this dialects are almost not differences, only phonetic differences.
 
::::: There is no a linguistic problem. The slogan "I dont understand" this has no any linguistic price, because all dialects have the same basic. There is only a phonetic problem, which exist also between Southern and Central.
 
::::: If you think, that Northern Zazaki were a own language, then evidence it to us.
 
::::: Ask "ZazaDerbekirij", which dialect he can understand more, Northern or Central? Then you get your answer. He can understand the Northern dialect better than the Central Dialect, and he can speak Zazaki perfectly. This are all personal views.
 
::::: And in the Cermikg Mouth does exist also "ime" as the variant "imı"
::::: '''Northern:''' ma zazayme (zaza+ime), '''Cermig:''' ma zazaymı (zaza+imı), meaning: we are zazas
::::: Central and the most Southern dialects lost the "m" in the end, Parthian, Pahlawi etc. are the evidences for this. And here we can see again the changing of e -> ı (ime -> imı) from Northern to Southern.
 
::::: And we have also not any problems with Varto-Speakers in communication. To us come every year Pirs of Varto, they speak in the Varto-Dialect and our family can communicate with them problemless. The only difference in the dersim-dialect is, is the pronouncing of the louds ç, c and ş. Therefore its hard to understand it in the real life.
 
::::: But in the writing language nobody have any problems with Mirzalis or Asmens texts. The only problem from ZazaYasar were the -e endings and things like "gırewt, "hewr", "ime" etc. because he is a regionalist.
 
::::: And at "ime" he had a very stupid argument: "ime" were according to him kurdish, while in kurdish doesnt exist this, the kurds use for "we are" this sentence:
 
::::: Kurmanci: Em kurd ın = we are kuds
::::: Sorani: Ême kurd ın = we are kurds
 
::::: It not has any relation to kurdish, the kurdish "ın" has the same root as persian "and" (for 3. person plural) it lost only the "d". Zazaki "ime" has the same root as persian "im", as in: ma mikon'''im''' = we do it, zazaki: ma ken'''ime''' and it has old iranic roots.
 
::::: Look also to here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorani#Die_Verbkonjugation_im_Vergleich_mit_dem_Persischen
 
::::: And here about the personal endings of Pahlawi: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelpersische_Sprache#Verben
 
::::: People like ZazaYasar, or our Dersimists work only on personal basis. Don't hear to them. This people do split also between villages.
 
::::: You are an intellegent man, don't be a regionalist like them. Every language had his standard process. We must do it, that Zazaki has a future in this global World. --[[User:Dersimıc|Dersimıc]] 13:43, 5 Tebaxe 2008 (UTC)
 
:::::: Whatever you say above has no relevance to for the issue. There is no accepted standard language at this time, and it seems there won't be in the near term. So I think there is no point in insisting on something that is not applicable for the time being. I am not against the idea of a standard language, but it doesn't exist. [[User:Xosere|Xosere]] 20:55, 5 Tebaxe 2008 (UTC)