Wikipedia vaten:Varyantê Zazaki/Fonetikê Zazaki
"mereno"
bıvurnethe variant "mereno" is really using by many central zazas, look to this article:
http://ku.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rencber_Ezîz_(Zazakî)
Ezîz, 31.07.1988 de, bajarî Almanya Bremen de xo yew bînaya berz ra erzeno war û bi no hewa mereno
and this:
http://diq.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Destan%C3%AA_G%C4%B1lgam%C4%B1%C5%9Fi&oldid=679
Engîdû benû nêweş (niweş) û merenû.(Tablet 7) Gılgamış embazî xo rî zaf bermenû û lorîyan kenû. Mergî Engîdûyî ra pey tersî mergî kewnû ey zerre û merg ra remenû. Vanû: "Ez bi xo zî merena...
So, its the variant "mereno" exist, its should be standard, we should not make exceptions, because north zazas dont know this variant. "mereno" is older, avesta show this, look to chapter "e", i added it. "mır-" is only kurdish influence. --Dersimıc 21:38, 24 Heziran 2008 (UTC)
- Good catch. --Xosere 04:49, 25 Heziran 2008 (UTC)
ç, k, p, t / çh, kh, ph, th
bıvurnevaryantê çekuye | çekuya standarde | eslê çekuye | problem: |
---|---|---|---|
khan | kıhun | Farski: kuhna (Beloçki:kwahn) | we need example of middle or old iranain |
khoçıke | Kaçıke | Tirki: kaşı- | do the variant Kaçıke really exist? until this time i heard always khoçıke or koçıke |
phanc | panc | Ewısta: pança | asmen sayd that the most use "phanc" without aspiration |
thamare | tamar | Mogolki: tamır | asmen moved now thamare to damare, what now? should we use thamare or damare? |
thembur | tambur | Farski: tanbūr | i heard until this time only the variant thembur or tembur, anyway the persian "a" maens in zazaki "e", so is the most original "tembur" or "thembur" |
Panc:In most Bingol/Palu dialects it is "punc" (look: Harun Turgut dictionary.) In southern Zazaki, its also with "p". In Koyo Berz dictionary, it is "panc" and "panj". So obviously most people use "p" variant as opposed to "ph". This is not important anyway. We look at what is most original. Obviously its panc.
koçıke: I think it should be koçıke. In Palu/Bingol, it is kueçık. "o" usualy turns to "ue".
damare: I think it should be damare. It comes to Zazaki from Turkish damar. In Bingol dialect it is Domar or Dumar.
tembur: Tembur looks okay.
kıhun: yes we need historical examples. But we are sure that historical example is not khun. In Kurdish its "kevn" or "kevne". --Xosere 18:01, 4 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
- ok thank you for the informations bira. --Dersimıc 18:03, 4 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
Panc is moved to Fonetike Standardi page. Damare and koçıke is moved to Standardization of Foreign words. Xosere 18:09, 4 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
- very very good, thanks. please add also the navigation as template and the bivenen chapter to the "p"-site. thanks. --Dersimıc 18:10, 4 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
It seems like Tembur is a foreigh word. May be from Kurdish or Turkish. In Persian and Arabic it is tanbur. But in Turkish it is Tambur. In Kurdish it is Tembur. Links:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanbur
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temb%C3%BBr
- http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/search.asp?w=tambur&x=0&y=0
Xosere 18:29, 4 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
- Hi, good research. Yes there are also words from other iranic languaes in zazaki. But i dont see this as loanword. Also turkish has many words from other turkic languages, nobody declare them to "loaned". And anyway we have not an own word for "tembur".
- We have also not an own word for "rose", "gul" is also a loaned word. But I think, we dont should put iranian-loanwords, where we have not own words, to the "foreign"-list. Things like "rojhilat" > rocvetış are good, to kill the kurdish influence.
- But our people be confuse if we put things like "gul", "tembur" and other hundreds of words to the foreign-list, where zazaki have not own words. --Dersimıc 18:47, 4 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
the word for "and" in zazaki
bıvurneIn the german Wikipedia stands, what this was in Old Persian "utā" and Middle Persian "ud", is this right?
pele vs. perre
bıvurnewhat is the most original variant for "site"? i ask, because i see that asmen does favor now "perre". are there historic examples that northern zazas can adopt it? does this come from avesta "per-" for "wing"? --Dêsımıc 13:17, 19 Temuz 2008 (UTC)
evidence for deştiş/derz
bıvurne- avestan: darez
- pathian: drz / 'dyş
- khotaneze: darş
- sivendi: serz/dişt
All from Cheung p.63
evidence for gan
bıvurne- avestan: viianaya (soul)
- parthian: gy'in (soul)
- middle persian: gy'n, gyan
- persian: can
- kurdish: giyan
- sivendi: gan
- from PIE:*ane- (Latin anima, animal...)
- sankrit: an (breathe)
from Cheung p.161
evidence for gaz
bıvurne- middle persian: gc-, gaz
- Parthian: gşt
- persian: gazidan/gaz
- kurdish gazin/gaz
- sivendi: gaz
- pashtun: agzai
- no PIE root
from Cheung 118
evidence for werzen-
bıvurnegilaki: virişten/viriz
- from Cheung p.311
evidence for bırnayis
bıvurne- avestan: bri
- middle persian: bryn-, blyn
- parthian: bryn
- hewrami: bir
- semnani:brin
- from PIE: bhrei- (russian: brit "shave" ...)
- sanskrit: bhri
from cheung p.23