Wikipediya:Embassy/Arşiv 1

According to the policy of this Wikipedia, we only write in Zazaki. For communications in English (or any other questions other than in Zazaki), please on this page.


Page brokenBıvurne

Hi, you managed to break the main page. There are images flowing around in the bottom part (only in Internet Explorer). Please fix.

I tried to fix it as much as I could. However, the problem happens only for Internet Explorer 6 browsers.
If you use the Internet Explorer 7 [1] You won't have a problem --Xosere 02:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Politics and religionBıvurne

We decided in favour of write in Zazaki or English. Another issue is politics and religion. It is the wrong place here for provocative remarks. Best regards! --mirzali 22:58, 20 Gucige 2007 (UTC)

Bıraêne, ma qerar gırewt ke ita tenıya be Zazaki u İngilizki bınuşime. Dewa bine ki siyaset u dino. İta caê leci u fıkranê provoke-kerdeyan niyo. Weşiye de bımanê! 23:00, 20 Gucige 2007 (UTC)

American news channel ABC refers to Zazaki Wikipedia.Bıvurne

"To be sure, Wikipedia's egalitarian mantra that "anyone can edit" is a huge draw, across cultures. Few are the people who have even heard of all the languages that now have a Wikipedia (Zazaki, Voro, Pangasinan, Udmurt and Shqip, to name a few)."


It is not right to delete some writings on discussion pages. I"ll create an archive page to open up space. --Xosere 16:14, 31 Tebaxe 2007 (UTC)

Zıwananê Bıray de WikipediyaBıvurne

I believe we don't need "Zıwananê Bıray de Wikipediya" template on the main page. First, they are already on the left side. Second, it doesn't have any clear purpose. Third, it esthetically don't look good. --Xosere 21:30, 30 Çele | Kanuno peyên 2008 (UTC)

But i saw in turkish wikipedias, they have same template for the same family languages, It would be really interesting, And we can extend it to all iranian languages or north-western iranian languages (by adding KURDISH), Although Ramin in fa.wikipedia is aware of Zazaki, Gileki, Ossetic and Mazanderani wikipedias, he didn't include their interwiki in the fa.wikipedia's main page, Even Tajik! But there are many users in fa.wikipedia who support these such templates such as user:Mani1 (except one azeri user! who suggested neighborhood languages of persian template) ... Anyways ... what you mean by esthetically? --Ali1986 06:09, 31 Çele | Kanuno peyên 2008 (UTC)
If other languages in the Iranian languages family agree on a template, I will support it. I don't think we need a template for only three languages. By esthetically, I mean a small box at the bottom of the page doesn't look nice. --Xosere 07:01, 31 Çele | Kanuno peyên 2008 (UTC)
As far as i know you didn't like to having a busy &/or a main page with heavily contents, So this template with 3 items is perfect, Although loading images could make loading main page with delay, I'll ask to adding it in Gileki, and i'm sure they'll do it, We recently changed the appearence of Mazanderani's Main page to the unique template. Both of my friends in Gilan and Mazanderan agree to using ZaZa's wiki template. Ok, If it harm the page horizontally, Change it to Vertical, Just like our weekly article, Which we change it from Ver. (like en mainpage) to Hor. (We will be having it! ... I'll contact you by email because i have some fresh news about interwikis!) --Ali1986 08:50, 31 Çele | Kanuno peyên 2008 (UTC)
Dear Xosere Merdi, I didn't sent you any messages yet, I wasn't at home, I got back and i'll send it, I regret, Pardon me --Parthava 14:49, 21 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)
Dear Zaza friends, There is a vote on gileki wikipedia about this template, You are welcomed to vote there, موافق or مخالف ... ? Please note that we will add it there, Regardless of if you add it here or not, Any discussions? or optimizations? Surely would be welcomed --Parthava 16:58, 19 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)
موافق (mu'afeq): support, مخالف (muxalef): oppose --Mirzali 18:48, 19 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)

Happy 21 of FebruaryBıvurne

To All of my friends in Zaza/Deylemi Wikipedia!
Congragulations for the international day of mother tongue!
Your friend, Ali Known as Parthava 14:47, 21 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)

Zıwananê Aryaniye binan de WikipediyaBıvurne

Hi everyone, I replaced "Zıwananê binan de Wikipediya" box with "Zıwananê Aryaniye binan de Wikipediya". I think it is nice. What do you guys think? --Xosere 04:55, 21 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

Hello bıra Xosere. It could be done. But I thought, we named the language group Zıwanê İranki in Zazaki. Aryan is a little bit tooo archaic :) --Asmên 21ê Marte/Adare, 17:39 (CET)
I am sorry we discussed that before, but I still don't understand why we use "Zıwananê Iranki". It is like saying ""Zıwananê Iranish" in English. "Zıwananê Iranki" is not a language; it is a language group. Yes, I know that there is a theoretical "Proto-Iran" language and "Proto-Indo Aryan" language, but they are different story. --Xosere 18:28, 21 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)
Maybe I misunderstood what you did mean with "aryan" languages. You can use Turkish in brackets for describing the matter, exceptiopnally :) --Asmên 22:29 (CET
Dear bıra Xosere!
İranki means both "Iranish" and "Iranian". Greetings --Mirzali 17:07, 22 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

What it means?Bıvurne

Hey, what it means "parçey yew sistemê de gırdio"??

I didn't read a sentence like that in other language.

In turkish would be not "bir büyük sitemdenin parcasi"??

Should be called the right sentence like "parçey yew sistemê gırdio" ?

And what it means "pê Zazakiyê do pak"? , "Temizde bir Zazacala"?? -- 13:20, 26 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand it either. --Xosere 16:57, 26 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)
the word de/do.. here is different than the other de which means the word in in English. This word supports the meaning of the sentences with adjectives. (anlamı pekiştirir) and this form is used commonly, in Zazaki dialects.


  • hegao gırs/gırd = büyük tarla
  • hegao de (dı/do) gırs = büyükçe bir tarla . (anlamı güçlendiriyor, tam Türkçe karşılığı yok)

--Belekvor 00:17, 27 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

Alright. How about this sentence: "Beluçki yew zıwanê do İrankiyo zımeo". Does the word "do" emphasize that the Beluçki is a North Iranian language. --Xosere 07:19, 28 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)
A question, what does mean the sentence "parçey yew sistemê de gırdio" in turkish? There is already the "yew" for "a", "parçey yew sistemê gırdio" does man already "bir büyük sistemin parcasi". But what does mean "parçey yew sistemê de gırdio"? Or what does mean "yew senatkaro de Zazao", here is also already the "yew" for "a". I question because i want to learn, please don't understand me false. Thank you. --Dersimıc 13:03, 28 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

Do / yewBıvurne

Since many people don't understand the the "do" variant, we should change every sentence to "yew" for standardization of wikipedia. --Xosere 22:37, 12 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Hi, you are right. Nobody of the Central Zazas can understand that, and this is not richness, "one" is always "one" in the meaning. The Standard Language should be understandable of all Zazas. I changed the welcome text at your request. --Dersimıc 12:46, 13 Nisane 2008 (UTC)


I moved all the articles in page. Changed -ene ending with -en. The reason is stated in Zazakiye Standard page. --Xosere 15:18, 24 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Bırao delali, I don't think that it was a good idea to change the infinitive ending to -ene which hurts the gender and so the grammatical structure of the language. Arguments should be considered from the qualiative aspect and not from the quantitative --Asmên 1:56 26.04.2008 (CET)
I think we should discuss this issue little bit more. Probably, the decision that we need to make will base on practicallity and applicability. --Xosere 17:02, 26 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Standard ZazakiBıvurne

Birayo delali, we have been together for more then two years. You helped this project a lot. We also had a lot of discussions. I always tried to be accommodating. I didn’t want to piss off people. Even though I didn’t understand sentences that used at the top of the main page, (xeyr amey template), I didn’t say anything. You used even the “hama” there even though it obviously should not be there.

Anyways, to make the long story short, I really did not understand your writings. However I kept on going. Even one day, Mirzali made the names of months standard according to his wishes. To be frank with you, the language that you try to make standard is not understandable by many people and as you see not many people contribute here.

To be further frank with you, I understand Vate’s standard language very well. I think we should build on what they have built. They worked together side by side for years. They did a lot of studies together. Yes they are not linguists, but their language flows well and accepted by many people.

All we need to do is to use our alphabet and eliminate some Kurdish words from Vate standards. This is not very hard. Kurdish influence is not that great. Only a few words and letters, and that’s it. I think they did a good job, except that Kurdish influence. When you read their articles, you don’t really feel that a specific region’s dialect influence. When I read yours, I feel a northern-Zazaki flavor.

To sum up, I think we should improve what Vate did. I don’t like their attitudes, but that is what we should do, to make a more perfected standard literally Zazaki. --Xosere 19:06, 27 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Everybody understand the word "xosere" falseBıvurne

Everybody who looked to Wikipedia understand the word "xosere" false, as example a thirty year zaza from dersim who speak zazaki perfect read the welcome text, and he understood it as "kendi-üstüne", i said to him it means "özgür", but he thinks always when he read "xosere " > "kendi üstüne". Why you use not simply "azad", this word know everybody, its a famous word, also persians use this? The word "xosere" ist too artifical, it is so as the turks use "kendiüstüne" or "kendibasina" instead of "özgür". If you want a zazaki alternative to "azad", then create please a new word who is not only a combination like primitive words as kurdish "dengbêj" instead of "senatkar", which meaning "sessöyle", or the soran kurds use instead of "xeber >"deng u bash" ("ses ve iyi"). This are primitive combinations and makes the language primitve. And here is "xosere" the smae artifical word and makes the language primitive und un-understandable, everybody do understand this as "kendiüstüne" or "kendibasina", but nobody can interprete this as "özgür".

If you mean "bağımsız", its makes no different, xosere = kendibasina or kendiüstüne, the people interprete this always so. you cant compare this with turkish "özgür" or "bagimsiz", because xosere is simply an another word. its were better, you use "azad" for = özgür, serbest for = serbest, and you create for "bagimsiz" a new word, with have "bê-" suffix ("without") and a "bağım-" (i dont know the zaza word). But you must first create a word "bağımlı", if this dont exist in zazaki, how we can speak about "bagimsiz"?? --Dersimıc 10:06, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

bındest : bağımlı (ülke ve halklar için), gırêdae = bağlı, bağımlı (şehirler, ülkeler.. için) bındestiye:bağımlılık
xoser : bağımsız, serbest
misal: "Şarê ma bındesto, xoser niyo"..

Zazaki has own rules and words, we cannot think like Turkish or another language. Thanks.--Belekvor 11:49, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

also in german is it like turkish, "un-abhängig" = bagim-siz. if "xoser" is "bagimsiz", what are then the sentence "kendi başına" and "kendi üstüne" in zazaki? --Dersimıc 11:54, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

it changes;

  • Ni/nê merdumi kare gırewte xo ser ; bu adam işi kendi üzerine aldı (burda xo ser ayrı yazılır)..
  • Na kare mı sero+a :(bu iş benim üstümde..)
  • No mordem kou sero, xo sero+o, bu adam dag basında kendi basına
  • No mordem xoser+o ; bu adam serbest
  • mordemo xoser = özgür adam (eril+eril)
  • ensiklopediya xosere: özgür ansiklopedi (dişil+dişil)
  • Teyna = kendi başına, yalnız

--Belekvor 12:05, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

thank you for the examples, i mean this. "xoser" = bagimsiz and "xoser" = kendiüstüne are the same words, and this makes a language primitive. therefore the zazas they lookd to wikipedia think always "xoser" were "kendi üstüne". you cant also teach the turks that they think at the word "kendiüstüne" "özgür", its not possible, one cant change the brains of the people. also after i said "xoser" is "bagimsiz" the people think continue "kendiüstüne" if they read "xoser". --Dersimıc 12:07, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
Dersimıc bıra, you are right, but for independent/free xoser,for kendi başına xo sero, for kendi üstüne xo ser ...writings of them change..If you could speak, write and understand Zazaki well, you would solve this problem easily..--Belekvor 12:25, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
its not possible to create words like "bêbındest"? because in the speaking language its hard to understand what is "xoser", because its have to meaning: bagimsiz and kendi üstüne. --Dersimıc 12:34, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)


Is the right form not "veci", i heard everytime "veci", its to me new, that after a vocal in imperative in zazaki comes an "e". You say also not "şoye" to "go!", you say "şo", one say "bıcıwi" and not "bıcıwiye". because after vocals in zazaki the imperative suffix at 2. person singular dont come. Why then "veciye"? The right form is: veci. --Dersimıc 14:50, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Well, "şo" is an exception, but otherwise in nothern and south Zaza the imperative 2. Sg. gets an -e, therefore "veciye". In central Zaza the is get lost, therefore you'll hear "veci" or "bicıwi". In West-Dersim where partly the unstressed -e tends to an -ı, at verb stems with an -i it tends also to be lost, therefore you'll hear "veci" but if you ask for a precise articulation, you'll hear "veciye". --Asmên 13.05.2008, 09:00 (CET)

Koyo Berz' comment about here used words:Bıvurne

sela burada birkaç kelimeyi örnek vereceğim. Mesela: Ciran, heval, Zêde, veya Jêde kelimelerinin Zazacası var. Ciran=Embıryan, heval olvaz, enbaz, ombaz vesaire. Zêde=Vêşi gibi. Ciran Arapça, heval ve zêdede Kürtçe kelimelerdirler.

Şıma Xeyr Amey Wikipediya Zazaki, where is the "to"?Bıvurne

Why here is not using "to", suchwise:

Şıma Xeyr Amey Wikipediya Zazaki

The Mazandarans do use it too:

شما خش به‏مونی مازرونی/تبری ويکيپديا، رهایه فه‏رئه‏نگ نومه ره şma xş bh‏munî mazrunî/tbirî wîkîpdiya, rhaye fh‏rih‏ng nume rh

or the gileks:

شما خش بمونی گیلکی ویکی‌پدیا، رها یه دانش‌نومه ره.

şma xş bmunî gîlkî wîkîpdiya, rha iye danş‌nume re.

why should not zazas use it? because our grandfathers and grandmothers dont use it? why you support this poorness and primitiveness? "Şıma Xeyr Amey Wikipediya Zazaki" < "hoshgeldiniz zazaca wikipediya", there is "to" not exist, it means then that "wikipediya zazaki" is welcome and not "you".

Why not : Şıma Xeyr Amey Wikipediya Zazaki Rê = Hoshgeldiniz Zazaca Wikipediyaya

it is also possible to say as example "domanan rê", "to rê" etc., its a normal word for "to". --Dersimıc 17:57, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)


Srry guys, I have the answers in my head, but don't have the time to answer all that questions, I'm too busy. Some cases are really not necessary to discuss about it. The lack of knowledge about Zazaki and the language itself leads to mis- and "not to want understandings". Many questions and problems wouldn't have appear if the language itself and the method would have been better known. Thanx a lot for your contributes and I'll leave for some days. xatir be sima, hata nejdi. --Asmên 29/4/2008 1:43 (CET)

it is really sadly, that in zazaki dont exist the word "katilmak" and you use instead of this "kew"- what is primary meaning "to fall". even kurds have it, they use "beshdar bûn". words with tousand meanings makes the language poor. why you cant create in the zazaki instute the words they dont exist in zazaki? like "family", "katilmak", "news" etc.? its simple, kurds made it so; mal = house, malbat = family. nû = new, nûçe = haber. --Dersimıc 10:53, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Request, not to make grammar changes on Wikipedia until we decide it togehterBıvurne

Dear friends. I'll not be at home for some days and Mirzlai seems also be abscent this time. We can and ahoulddiscuss always about the standardizing and other grammar matters. But at the last time there have also been made changes although it's grammatical and also methodical not correct. Some of the mistakes are made due to the lack of knowledge of Zazaki. I have the feeling that there are not payed attention on my arguments. Mirzali also had the request to macke the changes back made on the infinitive ending -ene but it was rejected with an insufficient. We don't have the authority to say "nobody nedds that". That's noway linguistic. And unlinguistic arguments weaken our position and credit. We can't make changes for the convenience sake of some people we meet in the chat rooms or internet or we don't have any statics. We can not argue with peoples who never contributed here and even know the other dialects or have any interest to know them. Nobody is an authority here but we should not forget the competence. I'm also not responsible people (although a appreciate them much) (like F. Iremet or Koyo Berz) if the don't know that also in Çermug (e.g. the village Qelecuğe) or Sêwrege for example the rectus -e (keyneke) or 1st sg. -an or anı (ez şiyan, şiyanı) or heni (weni, otir) is still used! I or beter Rosan Hayig has enough evidence. Some expamples about the matters discussed at the last days:

  • labelê is also Arabic lik emma
What is in arabic "labelê", i ask because i want to put to the foreign word list. thanks. and is there exist a pure iranic word for "but"? --Dersimıc 12:10, 30 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
  • hwe doesn't exist in Zazaki. Where it is that spoken? The variant xue, xwı (sounding like 'xwı') has nothıng to do woth the 'originality' of that word but -o- is in central Zazaki turned to -ue, also like in kue, due, tuı (ko, do, to): xo -> xuı/xuw
ok, you are right, i changed it to "ho", because "xo" is kurdish and persian influence. also the zazas dont say "xewn", they say "hewn" (avesta: hvefne). because this "xw" in louds who was in old iranian "hw" is only persian influence in zazaki. "ho" should be standard, many zazas do use "ho" and its totally understandable:ê_Fonetikio_Standard#x_.2F_h.2C_xu --Dersimıc 18:21, 30 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
  • I looked once at the notes of P. Lerch made 1850. The rectus feminin output -e (or -ı) exists there! Ans Zazaki doesn't differ casus rectus and obliquus for feminine (singular) therefore we can't create a new rule like "rectus feminin -, obliquus -e. This exists in Kurmancî (-ê), but not in Zazaki.
Is this not exist in the Central Dialect and in some southern dialects? --Dersimıc 11:15, 30 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
  • One of the big mistakes is to think in another language and try to project it on another (for our case from Turkish or Kurdish to Zazaki) and call the Zaza-langugae "poor" but whithout to rule the language and its grammar. Şıma xeyr amey keyê ma is the same like Şıma xeyr amey Wikipedia, viz this is syntactical correct (indirect object). The Postposition has another function.
"Şıma xeyr amey keyê ma" have many meanings: Hosgeldiniz evimiz, Hosgeldiniz evimize. The same is with "Şıma xeyr amey Wikipediya" < "Hosgeldiniz Wikipediya, Hosgeldiniz Wikipdiyaya". Its simply poorness, that a language can not differ between this meanings. Why we should lie us self? --Dersimıc 10:45, 30 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
  • Can you give expamples why Vate hasn't any falvor of a dialect but we have? There isn't still a unitary standard Zazaki at the Vate people, too. Every one's flavor fo his own dialect. Some nothern say to me, I would write in the souther dialect most totally. Please note, in some cases nothern and souther Zazaki (especially Bingöl-Adakli, Varto and Siverek-Cermik) stay to each other closer than to the central. If I'm wrong please correct me. We, writers and researchers like H. Tornêcengi, X. Çelker, P. Sodıri, Eli Bıra contributed for many years at the researches about Zazaki together with linguists. In comparison with Vate they dind't ever work with linguists. Of course I appreciate some of their methods and their eagerness and if you take their kurdism out, I would also proceed in many cases like them; the more so as we do it at Wikipedia. Note: Vate uses also the feminine rectus output -e and also the infinitive with -ene !
Vate use as example in the most time "yew" instead of unnecessary endings as "êdo, êko" etc, that every Zaza can understand the texts better.
bi yew ziwano sade = bir sade dil ile
bi yew ziwano basīt = bir basit dil ile
its not richness, to have many words for the same meaning "one / a". --Dersimıc 11:14, 30 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
  • 2nd Sg. rectus and to coincided whith the oblique form in some Dersim vernaculars (Xozat, Pulur, Mamekiye etc.), in Solhan (Boglan) is also oblique now (apart from that: tuı)

Therefore I request, let's discuss on that matters but don't make changes on the articles and get the changings back of the infinitive -ene.

wes u war bê! --Asmên, 30/4/2008 10:51 (CET)

in my fathers dialect and in many dialects in mazgirt, they use it suchwise: tu = rectus, to = obliquus. and its totally clear, that "tu" is the most original version. you can see this in old iranian and middle iranian. "tı" is only deformed version of "tu". so why we should make here an except, because this not exist in your dialect? because the most use "tı"? the most use also "vor" and other things they are not standard. how can accept "tu"-speakers "tı" as standard if there are not linguistic historic arguments? --Dersimıc 10:25, 30 Nisane 2008 (UTC)
A question: What was "zi, ji, ki", "veysan / veyşan" in Old Iranian (Please say me also the old iranian language name, like Avesta or Old Persian). And why is "espıce" standard whil in old and middle iranian was this "spiş", and why is "gan" standard while this was in middle iranian "can"? And: Its "şiwar" for "west" also pure iranic word? Is "temaşe" in Kurdish and Persian pure iranic, if yes, what is the etym. root of this word? Is the "zaf, zehf" in zazaki really arabic as Emanoel says, if yes how is this word in Arabic? Thanks. --Dersimıc 10:38, 30 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Grammar changesBıvurne


I have some harsh words to say about the recent changes. This is an encyclopaedia and no child's play. We need to keep up with the other Wikipedias. From ignorance tries everyone for himself to make changes, but it doesn't work like that.

Each language has its own historical development. On the other hand, it would be wrong and artificial.

Even language researchers and scholars are not able to do up the rules. The rules are already in the language. We need only research and find them out.

As you learn a foreign language with all its difficulties. You have first of all learn your own dialect and gradually the other dialects. By comparison of foreign languages alone you can't pull out etymological conclusions. The dialects of ones own language are also very important.

Please don't misunderstand me , it is not personal against anybody. I talk to the public. --Mirzali 13:38, 5 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

I agree but the fact is most people want to use his or her regions variants, so this prevents us to have a workable Zazaki Wikipedia here. --Xosere 14:30, 5 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, but nobody says kerden, wenden. Please change them back. Greetings!--Mirzali
Let's discuss these issues little bit more. It is not just -iş and -ene issue. We are talking about a major shift. --Xosere 15:15, 5 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
What has this with child play, if we unite the dialects with arguments, if you mean the etymology sources, everything is for you child play which is against your ideas. Now everybody can see why is a variant standard and why a variant should not be standard. And nobody can make "bölgecilik" as from now, only bölgecis can have fear about this project. The grammer issues are for me not important, i changed nothing (if you believe, i changed it). The important thing is to create a standard at same words, and this is only possible, if you can convince people, therefore the etymology sources. I bet: 99,999999% of the Zazas are Bölgecis. How can they accept the standard variants, if you dont show arguments? How can they know why is this or other word the most original? Are they all linguists and magicans, that they know this? Who did accept your standards until to this time? Nobody. And Why? Because you didnt convince the people (Zazas = Bölgecis, its a fact) with arguments and reasons. And if you dont show the arguments, then even after 30 or 50 years nobody accept your standards.
The speakers of the other languages dont discuss about etymology and stadandard issues, because they have a state. Have Zazas have a state that they can push a standard without arguments and reasons? No. Asmen hisself said that one can only create standard if one use the most original variants. How can a northern zaza do know why is "roc" the most original variant, or how can a central zaza know why is "de" the most original variant, if they dont see etymology sources? Xosere hisself didnt accept the "de" of Northern Zazaki before month, because he didnt know that this is the most original variant until he asked his professor. ZazaYasar didnt accept words like "hewn, gırewt, vewr" etc. because he didnt know why they are standard. Your friend Faruk Iremet didnt accept "roc", because he again dont know why is this standard.
And now you can imagine how the normal zaza people think, everybody is against to the dialect of the other and do believe that the own dialect is the rightest, my father as example do believe that "ez kon, ez zon" is the rightest. Like i said, the 99,99% of the Zazas are Bölgecis. Why? Because this people are not linguists as you, this people dont know the etymology and linguistic informations as we.
You should be thankful, that i give my hours and weeks to search the etmology sources and put they. Thank of this informations, everybody can accept now at least a part of the standards. But...its only for you a child play. you did dicuss with faruk iremet, zaza yasar and the others 100000 times that they accept some standards, but you couldnt convince them. because, without arguments you can not convince a zaza (=bölgeci). and we have also not an originisation as pkk that we can push standards without arguments.
In "Zaza Derbekirij"'s (the Admin of ZazaForum) dialect they use really "kerden, vaten", but this is for me not important. Its only for Southern and Central Zazas important, they are against them. How you can convince them to use this "e" in feminin rectus? and its were an apocalypse if you delete this in feminin rectus, if anyway there are dialects they dont use this in rectus and if the most central and southern zazas are against this, also south zazas they use "-ı" are against this "-e", because also they dont use this system at all words in rectus, only in some words.
@Xosere: In which issue you agree? You self are against the feminin e-suffixes in rectus and deleted them in Wikipedia. --Dersimıc 15:50, 5 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

I definetely think that it is wrong to describe things that we did as "child play". I talked to Mirzali long time ago about his attitude, and it pushes away people from Wikipedia. I really think that what you did here was really really good. Thanks for that. And Mirzali cannot call it "child play". We have to discuss all those issues. This place is not one person's place. We have a lot to do my buddy. We need to show phonetical change of Zazaki words so that people can see what is original, like you said. Don't get upset because we are doing well. --Xosere 18:22, 5 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

Mrb Ombazi Ez Zaza Derbekirijo, Zaza Forum ra: Archived 2008-05-17 at the Wayback Machine dı ez idare kerdog vi yo; Nıka ji Archived 2019-05-11 at the Wayback Machine u u Archived 2009-04-27 at the Wayback Machine ezo idare qeno...

Şıma pero piya re sılom u hürmet qeno.

Ombaze, ez ewnao qı mesela şıma; qesone vaten, kerden ya ji vatene, kerdene serâ; Ez warzeno qı fıkrê xo ji/zi şima re bınusi: Ombaze ma dı; Yane cae ma, Çermug dı; Vatene/Kerdene/Omayene çinyo..Ma dı direct vaten, mesela qal/qıse vaten: söz söylemek hemo/heme/hema/ama" vatene to": senin söylediklerin yane madı "e" qese /kelime qeno zafi (çoğul); "vatena to" : senin dediğin... Ya ji Eril(Tırki) olarak "Vatene Weli(Veli): Velinin söyledikleri; "Vatena Eyşı" (Ayşenin söylediği) beno...

Gorê fıkrê mı e qı qeso peydı herfê "e" bıve se; a qese bena ya "dişil" ya "eril" ya ji bena "zafi"-çogul". Na çi mı re raşti nino...

Şıma ji fıkro nê xo bınusê ma na mesela ser qesey/ qalo bıkı mı...--Peropiya 20:14, 5 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

Bıraêne, sorry for my inappropriate choice of words. But I was just angry, because as I said, by comparisons no originality can be reached. I see that some friends have no adequate general language skills, but they try to enforce their own views.

We must see all dialects of our language equal. It can be that the words from the North, Central or South dialect of their originality exist in the so-called standard language. That would be not so wrong, rather than to replace defaced words, which nobody knows, let speaks.

I wonder, who is operating bölgecilik. This is an unpleasant insinuation.

@ Bıra Dersimıc, I must say, I find your explorations quite good. It meant none of the road personally. Greetings! --Mirzali 13:36, 6 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

Why you want to limit people every time? I think this attitude is really hurting this project. Not many people is contributing here. You also had some wrong actions: You tried impose months name from your dialect, and it is still there. The word "hama" was up there for two years, and you didn't said anything. I didn't want to say anything at the time. However, I am sorry to say that but it hurts your credibility.
I am waiting for two years for a standard Zazaki, and there is nothing done for that. Here the Zazaki writings have a some kind of Northern-Zazaki flavor. We can't wait more, and I think Dersimic did good things in that respect. As bira Dersimic say, we have to show everything here so that everybody can see. We have to lay out reasons. Otherwise, nobody will accept anything. --Xosere 16:18, 6 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
I fought from the outset for this project.
How can anyone explain that I'm suddenly so uncredible. It's because I have some times not been there. You must know, I'm sick at the time and I go through a difficult period in pain again.
My heart bleeds, when I see that poor children work to our niece and constantly changing anything. For convenience without even to learn, but every time they ask, what means something. By unknown comparisons from questionable sources and stubborn ignorance, they could probably set up hypothetical theories.
The female -e ending is a very important matter in Zazaki, grammatically. This is a specific feature, which Zazaki differs from Kurdish, Persian or Turkish. This unstressed -e ending is in some areas of Zazas is weakened to an -ı and in some even totally disappeared.
What irritates people is probably the case in which if the e-dispatch follows a vowel, this according to a zeromorphem. But it is in the basic shape always available. But it runs with the following vowel. That means it merges with this vocal and disappears completely in the debate and thus transfers are included in the spelling.
For example:
kerdene = infinitive from the verb "to make, to do" or feminine noun within the meaning of "making and doing"
kerden u vatena to ... = "Your action and tales" ... Here disappears the e-sequence because of the conjunction "u" and feminine Ezafe-dispatch of -a.
The following discharges are available at all Zazaki basic verbs.
kerdene = infinitive from the verb "to make, to do" or feminine noun within the meaning of "making and doing"
kerdış = masculine noun within the meaning of "making and doing" (or infinitive form for "to make, to do" in the Southern dialect of Zazaki)
kerde = masculine preterite-participle
kerdiye = feminine preterite-participle
kerdoğ = masculine agentive-participle
kerdoğe = feminine agentive-participle
The preterite-participles are used as adjectives and the agentive-participles on the other hand, used as nouns.
We have only two basic cases, namely "Casus Rectus" and "Casus Obliquus" in Zazaki. The statement form is always in Casus Rectus. With pre- and post positions are always made with Casus Obliquus many other appropriate forms.
We can't explain every trifle always in detail and supporting documents, because a lot of time is consuming and because we think that people would understand it. At least who knows the language more or less, he does understand it well. For all seem the language matters too difficult, but there is a explainable declaration what concerns the grammar. If anyone worry a little more effort would every man find out for himself. Because the rules are there already put in the language.
By abbreviation and exclusion of alleged foreign words and smallest elements it can't be reached enrichment. You have to take the language as it is. Apart from this is not any language in the world absolutely clean in terms of vocabulary. The dialects of a language in itself is an enriching enough. Therefore, we should and can benefit the words of our dialects for a standard language equally. However, we should put the variants, which are the nearest to the originality of all dialects into the standard language. I think insinuations as "bölgecilik" are very absurd and the dispute in this regard brings us no forward. We have a very rich and a beautiful language with all its dialects. Zazaki is even richer than Turkish. We have to learn our language better and learn to love as it is.

Bıra Xosere, I like and appreciate you very much personally, although we still have not seen each other. With all due respect, you yourself should not feel attacked. My sometimes harsh words should also not frighten others, because if they are strong with their knowledges, can anyone establish and maintain. Ignorance, hypothetical theories (pirated), we should not tolerate. Because such things would more harm than help us.

Several such discussions have been sufficient years before in other forums. You can use this in the archives to learn if it were still not known. We are losing a lot of time because if we are residing a long time with a single word or tables. Instead of this, every one should be in a position of each to write new texts for our check, like bıra Belekvor do it.
We must show competence, because of the accuracy of the information, the spelling and in grammar consistently.
Bıra Xosere, you once said, everyone can write in his dialect, we should never force the standard language to anyone. Why this sudden change in meaning, because you would waiting for two years on a standard language? Please bıra, let us make mutually no personal allegations and we also should not defy injury. We must work together consistently and objectively. Otherwise, it would be an easy game for spies and enemies of our people to play off against each other among us. Remember too, that behind some hypocritical nicknames or IP numbers are not always hidding friends, how such people are already quite well known from other forums. Beware, so I do not want to directly attack somebody personally and wrongly accuse. I realize now, but also those people anyway know who is meant.
I apologize for any mistakes in advance. In this sense, greetings to all! --Mirzali 17:47, 8 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
Ma be xêr di, bıraenê! I think we should not approach the matter emotionally, otherwise we risk to violate each other. There is no doubt that every one of us loves his mother tounge and gives his best to contrabute productive to Wikipedia and for advancement of Zazaki. I agree with the most of Mirzalis opinions. I tried some time here and at the other pages to give answers to the last topics about the grammar problems especially about the gender. When I realized that there is not paying attention on my arguments and I felt confronted with a stubborn attitude by enforcing the own argument without linguistic evindential arguments, so I neither have the time to explain some points more detailed nor the nerve to repeat every argument, therefore I said I'll retire for a while. Is it not a contradiction to bring argumnents of any people we don't know about them and met at the virtual world, to pay attention on their opinion and on the other hand to claim that 99,9% of the Zazas are regionalists? It doesn't also fit to create any new grammar rule or to look on other languages and try to judge the own language as "poor". Purist tendencies never had a linguistic aspect. We should not create some words which are stranger to the citizen then the naturalized ones. We can't take the arguments of people seriously if they are unable to realize that Turkish has more loanwords than Zazaki has but think many words are loaned from Turkish into Zazaki and have inferiority complexes, therefore look with low-order on Zazaki. Linguistic procedures and methods should also preserve its principals and niveau and we shoul never try to copy what nationalists and purists ain the history tried to do. Therefore I think Mirzali said "childs play" without ignoring someones efforts and troubles. Wes u war bimanê! --Asmên 13.05.2008 00:59 (CET)
Mirzali, which unknown sources do you mean? I always used the sources which also asmen do use, as the etymology book of Paul Horn. Your problem is only, that now everybody does know what are the most original variants are, now you can not make bölgecilik, this is the reason why you have fear about such projects. You self do say the originality of a variant is important, but dont accept things as "zi" or "nuş", because you are bölgeci. you did lie mehmet with that "ki" were more original before month, that he accept your dialect. but even zülfü selcan do write that this was in old iranian "-çit", in middle iranian "ij" and "iz". and for iranian wordsa are only old iranian and middle iranian relevant and not latin or other non-iranian languages, then other people can come and argument suchwise that we accept thinks like "serm" without "sh" beaucse this was in proto indoeuropean without "sh".
And until to this time, i changed nothing in the grammer. Mehmet Bingöl changed the gramatic things, and i support him. That what i made only was to show the most original variants with Asmeno Bewayir, with your sources. so, what child play you mean????? But nobody should see the truthness, because then you can not make suchwise words without reasons standards. I leave this site, bye. --Dersimıc 18:35, 13 Gulane 2008 (UTC)
Dersimic, I pleased not to act emotional. Please note that Paul Horn is a good source but not the best and the only one. Hübschmann has an apart book for the corrections of Horn's mistakes! (But I don't have it in the PDF-Format. I don't think that Mirzali is an regionalist. I don't mind if there stays "hama, ama, labelê" (both are of Arabic origin) and with one prothese h- there is a "nothern flavor"? I requested also to give examples of Vates Zazaki and what can we do better and intelligable. "Zi" for "too, also, and" is notmore original than "ki" (I'm for both variants)! There is also a vernicular in Bingöl-Genc (I think from the village Gaz (?) where the person speaks "ti zi ki" "you, too" That should be a reduplication of two words but fact is he uses both of them. It's also OK when nuşn- is used, I don't mind. There is no reason to leave the site due to a difference of opinon whic is of couse solvable. Nia mekerê, biraenê! PS: I don't know who wrote the bullshit in the Veng u Vac forum like "Mirzali'nin Mehmet Cewligic'e saldirisi" but I sentence such a chevying behaviour! --Asmên 13.05.2008 (CET)

To your standardsBıvurne

Hi, if the most Zazas say "zi" to "also", why you make "ki" to standard? The Central and Southern Zazas understand "ki" as "that". This is not understandable. The "zi" also exists in some northern dialects. And: Not all Zaza People use "ita" or "no". If you against a compromise like "itiya" or "eno", then please write "tiya" and "en" in brackets, that everybody understand your Zazaki. But the easiest way is a compromise. The most of the Central Zaza dont know what is "no". Your linguistic arguments are irrelevant when nobody of the Central Zazas understand this. This is for me not a "Standard Zazaki", this is a "Northern Zazaki" with few Southern elements.

PS: The "e"-suffixes not used by Central and Southern Zazas. See in the dictionary of Koyo Berz (he is a Siverek South Zaza):

  • roc 1-gün, gündüz, 2-güneş
  • gam 1-adım, 2-o an veya o ana yakın, 3-biraz, az zaman
  • dew=1-dev, kaca canavar, 2-köy.
  • dew u sukı=köy ve şehir.
  • nam nam, ad, ün, şöhret vs
  • şew u roj gece gündüz, 24 saat
  • şew-şewı gece
  • şew bı şew her gece, gece bı gece
  • vewr u varan kar ve yağmur
  • vewr-vewrı kar
  • Apo Cem Tu xer ame

--Varan 15:54, 27 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)

My dear brother!
Thanks for your suggestions, but on that we already discussed several times. It repeats itself. So it's not true that it is a "Northern Zazaki" with few Southern elements, pretendedly. We take all Zazaki dialects in like manner. Central, Southern and Northern Zazaki are likewise important for the Standard Zazaki. We all need them and should learn without to draw between them.
Let us begin to compare words from Pela Seri to each other:
Central or Southern Zazaki = Northern Zazaki
zi = ki (that means ke in Zazaki and not ki)
xoser(e) = hoser(e)
yew = zu / jü
gırd(e) = gırs(e)
nê = ney
zıwan = zon
ın / eno = no
akerde = rakerde
xo = ho
tiya = ita
kewo (kewtış) = kuyo (kotene / kutene)
şıma = sıma
aya = awa (a + copula)
oyo = owo (o + copula)
eşkera = eskera
wına = nia
The feminine "-e" suffix alters in Central Zazaki to "-ı" or it disappears wholly like in Southern Zazaki. But this is a specific Zazaki morphem and it should kept, otherwise it looks like Kurdish or even like Turkish.
Best regards from --Mirzali 17:22, 27 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)
I know this an old discussion, nevertheless I want to make some corrections. Variants like "ju" , "zon", "hoser", "itiya", and "ho" is also used in some southern and central Zazaki dialects. They are not 100% specific to Northern dialects. --Xosere 04:22, 21 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

Template changeBıvurne

I changed the template Xeyr amey, because of many counter-opinions, although I don't agree in any issues. --Mirzali 17:54, 27 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, but why do you use not the compromise way, it were more simple, like this:
Şıma Xeyr Amey Wikipediya Zazaki!

Wikipediya, ensiklopediya xosere, parçey yew (ju) sistemê de gırdiyo. Namey enê sistemi Wikiyo. 250 ra zêde zıwan tede nusiyeno. Eno sistem her mıleti rê akerdeyo. Fêl u emelê enê sistemi oyo ke zanayışê merdumi biyaro têhet u her kes fıkranê xo serbest tede bınuso. İtiya de ki (zi) Wikipediya, ensiklopediya xosere, be zıwanê Zazaki veciyena. Kam ke wazeno ena ensiklopediye kewo. Hama şıma ra reca ma aya ke, şenê (beşar kenê) pê Zazakiyê do pak u eşkera bınusê! Projey ma wına her roce game be game beno gırd. Heta nıka tede 40,108 nuştey estê.

  • It is better to take "ju" in the bracket, because the North Zazas can't understand "yew". We have not a state that all Zazas can accept a Standard that not everbodody can understand.
  • In some phrases is used "y", as example: "wikiyo", "akerdeyo". But why not in the other phrases? Everbody say as example "gırdiyo".
  • "aya" is in my opinion better, because it is also saying "oyo" and the most use "aya", its more understandable for all Zazas.
  • The most Zazas use "nus", as example: bınuso, nusneno, nuskar, nustoğ. Asmen use also "cüab" for "answer", should we make this standard?
Thanks --Varan 16:10, 28 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)

Thank youBıvurne

Thank you for your great work dear Mirzali. Just, there is only a little problem:

  • The Zazas they use "ita" cant understand "tiya", therefore is "itiya" better, vocalize "itiya", then you can understand me.
  • The blue background is not serious. I used here the yellow background only for marking.

Thanks --Varan 17:34, 28 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)

Bıra thanks, but in any points I don't agree with you.
  • ıtiya, ıtya" including ita are several variants of tiya. In reality there does'nt exist an variant such as itiya, so I choose "tiya". (If the Northern Zazas understand "wına", they also understand "tiya", believe me. Never mind!)
  • Concerning the connecting sound of -y- looks the matter a little diffrently. It depends on an important rule. That is, when there don't appears a new syllable in a phrase, though it gets a suffix, you have to pronounce it rapidly together without any more syllables.
For example:
  • gırdio [gırd + i + o] = Adjective + Ezafe-Suffix + Copula-Suffix masculine
  • biaro [bı + ar + o] = Subjunctive-Prefix + Subjonctive root of "ardene" + Copula-Suffix masculine
Best regards from --Mirzali 18:54, 28 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)
Hi Brothers, i don't think that we Northern Zazas can understand this. See the morphology:
  • ita
  • tiya
We can only understand "ita" or "itiya". Zazas they use "tiya" can also not understand "ita". Why there doesnt exist an variant such "itiya" if our people say this? Linguistic is not important, the important thing is, that all Zazas can understand it. Language is so incalculably as the people self, its never static. If you use "eno", then i don't understand, why you against "itiya". It's the same, "e" is also only a prefix. But if the most Central Zazas say only "ın" or "en", we must use this.
A question to "wına", is this exist also in Northern Zazaki? If not and if the Northern Zazas can't understand it, then i am for a bracket with "nia". A "Full Standard Zazaki" is an illusion, we can only make some things like "eno" to standard, because they are the same words.
  • Things such this: gırot -> gırewt, no / en / ın -> eno, ita / tiya -> itiya, varon -> varan, sıma -> şıma, phonc -> phanc etc.
But we can not replace words as:
  • yew -> ju or zi -> ki, doman <-> qıc
  • wayir <-> wahar (its sounds totally differently, only the "w" and "r" are identic)
Nobody of our people will accept this (only 2-5 extrem-nationalists). We split with such projects our people. You know, that Dersimis are very conservative. Also the other Zazas are such.
The most important thing is: to understand. Don't understand me false, i am for a Standard Zazaki, but i mean: We can not replace words they are completly different, we must use for this purpose brackets.
--AliErsoy 16:02, 29 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)

ita / tiya / itiyaBıvurne

Dear Ali!
Bıra why do you do that way? First of all, I'm absolutely against every racial and romantically nationalism. Please, be careful to choose your words before you write such bullshit. This is a very bad imputation of you. I did'nt do it out of spite, when I said If the Northern Zazas understand "wına", they also understand "tiya". It has nothing to do with to be conservative. It depends on oneselfes learning skills. By the way, I'm from northern origin, but it is irrelevant in this matter.
Do you can say me, that all Germans could speak and understand so called Hochdeutsch or all Turks just as well speak and understand Türk yazı dili perfectly, a.s.o.? Of course they further speak also their regional dialects. But it is a learning process on a standard language.
We can't put a regional term instead of a proofed original one or put all equal words in brackets. It does'nt work, no other languages do that. We have to learn all of them without a dialectical separation. Varieties make up the wealth of a language.
I try to act scientifically and I research therefore in all Zazaki dialects indiscriminately. I know well that nothing is static, but we can't get on with any hypothetical polemics, too. Otherwise we fail and waste only our good time. If you want that our project prospers, so try to create a subject in Zazaki, no matter in which dialect. With kind regards from --Mirzali 20:41, 29 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Ali Ersoy. I think "itiya" is a better choice. Northern people will understand it more easily. --Xosere 08:13, 30 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)

Put than in to bracket "ita" please, that also Northern Zazas can understand this. I asked my parents and other Northern Zazas they can speak perfect Zazaki and they didn't understand "tiya". Make it in the form:

  • tiya (ita)

And i don't believe that the central Zazas can understand new word creations as "eno". Therefore i am her for a bracket-solution:

  • No (In).

Thank you

By the way: Please help me here to fix errors and to see that the text can be understand of every Zaza, thank you:Şanıka_Pepugi --AliErsoy 14:50, 30 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)

Bıra Ali, mı Sanıka Phepugi raver ita nuşt bi. Qısımê edebiyati de bınê sanıkan de na sanıke esta, na newe niya ke. Hem çiyo ke raveri ra nuşiyo, vurnaene rınd niya. Çıke o endi biyo be malê yê kulturê a mıntıqa u feko ke pê nuşiyo ki ma rê nae keno areze. --Mirzali 16:58, 30 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)
Bıra Ali you misunderstood me again. I did'nt say that anybody should give up his dialect. Such a thing like assimilation is out of place. I'm not authorized to force upon someone. Nevertheless, to my mind it is better to choose words, which are near to the original (like zıwan) for a standard language. Certainly, we shouldn't disregard all other variants, but we can't also show them all in a certain text. Again, anyone is allowed to write in his own dialect. Only articles that we create anew, we try to write in standard language.
Back to the word tiya: There is a tendency to shift vowels in some Zazaki dialects.
For example: An “ı” becomes to an “i“ or an “e” becomes to an “ı“ (The originals in each case are those with the former vowels).
Therefore ıtiya and ıtya switched to itiya and ita. According to the second case we have a form of etiya, which means all other variants are probably derived from this form. Finally, when we leave out the prefixes, we get the form tiya.
A similar proceed is also giving reasons for the forms no, na, and ney, nae, ninan. With kind regards from --Mirzali 16:07, 30 Paiza Verêne / Eylule 2007 (UTC)

Discussion movedBıvurne

The discussion on the grammar of Zazaki moved to to here: Talk:Zazakiyê Wikipediyao Standard. Please use this page only for discussing improvements to the Main Page. Thanks. --Xosere 00:47, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

A mistake in "karekteran Zazaki"Bıvurne

you added for the loud "gh" this letters: Ĝ ĝ, buts this letters dont exist in the Zaza Alphabet. In Zaza Alphabet do exist this turkish letters: Ğ ğ for the loud "gh". because the most zazas have a turkish keyboard. --Dersimıc 12:57, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)

We need also for the search box a choose for turkish-zazaish lettersBıvurne

like this: because many zazas have not a turkish keyboard, and its annoying to copy always this letters. --Dersimıc 13:02, 10 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)

Şıma Weş Amey?Bıvurne

What do you think about the idea to use the pure Zazaki word "weş" instead of the arabic "xeyr"? Also Persians do use "xoş", Iraqi and Irani Kurds use "xweş" and "xoş". Example:

Persian: şoma xoş âmadîd
Sorani Kurdish: êwe xoş hatin
Iran and Iraq Kurmanci: hûn xweş hatin

Many iranian people do use this, it is possible do use also this for Zazaki? What do you mean? --Dersimıc 22:31, 13 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)

We are Zazas and not Kurds or Persian People :) and I never heard any Zaza sayin "Sima wes amey"... Asmên 2:35 14.6.2008 (CET)
Xeyr amey is already well established in every region. It will look weird if you change it. Bira Asmen, Bira Dersimic's logic is to replace the arabic word with an iranic word, not to look like Kurds or Persians. --Xosere 06:18, 14 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)
Ok, i understand. --Dersimıc 11:37, 14 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)

Şıma her roc çi newe vecêni, inkey zi "Şıma Weş Amey" Ça dı ina vani?? Çew zi ina nêvuno. 'Arebki dı vuni "Bid'at" Şıma pêrê bid'at keni, "xêr" hem fariski, hem Kirdki u hem zi Zazaki di estu 'arewki ra amo u cay xu gureto merdım nêşkeno veco. Şıma qayil wa Şari ma Zazaki qal bıkero..

Zazayaso 11:03, 7 Tişrino Verên 2008 (UTC)

a question to asmen and belekvorBıvurne

is the grammer in this sentences right?

  • zıwananê binan de
  • Zıwananê İrankiyê Binan de Wikipediya

thanks --Dersimıc 14:12, 20 Heziran 2008 (UTC)

Dıyine (2.) ğeleta..gani (gereko) raşta xo "zıwananê irankiyanê binan de"...Çıke sıfati nêriye, makekiye u zafiye ra gore peybend gênê..ita de "zıwanê irankiy" (casus rectus) beno "zıwananê irankiyan" (casus obliquus..) ----Belekvormı rê mesaj bırusne 14:43, 20 Heziran 2008 (UTC)
Çımê to buri, bıra Belekvor ;) Asmên 20.06.2008, 22:12 (CET)
Ok thanks, so this sentences are right Bira Xosere:
  • zıwananê binan de (it is already right)
  • zıwananê irankiyanê binan de
It is corrected. --Xosere 04:42, 21 Heziran 2008 (UTC)
Bira Belekvor, i dont think that its necessary to put this "y" after words with "i". also asmen sayd there is no difference in the sounding as example between "zıwanê zazaki" and "zıwanê zazakiy". --Dersimıc 21:46, 20 Heziran 2008 (UTC)
I think it is necessary to show that the root of the word with "-i" is makes our job easy..----Belekvormı rê mesaj bırusne 22:58, 20 Heziran 2008 (UTC)

İranian LanguagesBıvurne

To Here we write only in Zazaki and English. I'm sorry to delete your insightful message, but this is the policy of the Zazaki Wikipedia. We will consider your proposal. Thank you for your consideration. --Xosere 17:14, 7 Tişrino Verên 2008 (UTC)

Caching functionBıvurne

Please deactivate this caching function, thank to this function the diq-wiki shows in Firefox and Opera sometimes old versions of articles and discussions. Thank you. --AliErsoy 12:12, 11 Tişrino Verên 2008 (UTC)

Pela Seri or Perra Seri?Bıvurne

Hi, in other parts of the Wiki-Interface it is using "perre" for "sayfa", so why not for "Baş sayfa"? What is more original, "pele" or "perre"? --AliErsoy 21:05, 31 Tişrino Verên 2008 (UTC)

-ci Suffix is not ZazakiBıvurne


Solution for this feminine -e problem (please remain it here, its a commony Wikipedia issue)Bıvurne

We haven't any linguistic and historic sources for the developing of this feminine suffix in Zazaki. We know:

Northern: -e, Southern/Central: , Kurmancji:

In Northern this -e comes everytime in the both cases rectus and obliquus. In some central dialects it comes only in the 2. case Obliquus, as in ZazaYasars dialect. In AvestaZazakis dialect it comes everytime in the izafe. Example: roca weşı = fine day.

There are also southern dialects, where it comes also in rectus in the none-izafe-case, but this speakers are a minority.

The fact is, in normal words without izafe doesn't come e/ı in the rectus-case. Example:

The most say: weşi = health, and not "weşiye" or "weşiyı". So we should respect this.

My idea for the solution is:

We can not convince people to take this -e, without historic sources its not possible. You can discuss about this issue 100 years, nobody of Central/Southern Zazas will accept it. This issue destroys all and split the Zaza-Nation.

So the solution:

- To don't use this feminine suffix in rectus without izafe, example: vewr = snow, her roc = every day, ceni = woman, şew = night

- To use the southern/central majority suffix -ı in the izafe: Ensiklopediya xoserı = Free encyclopedia, Britanyaya gırdı = Great Britania, ceniya rındekı = beatiful woman.

Yes, maybe it looks ugly for our Northern Zazas, but we should respect the using of the majority, if we have not evidences and arguments for the -e ending.

And in the none-izafe-case it can comes only in obliquus, example:

-obliquus: ez vewrı vênenan = ben karı görüyorum. (i see the snow)
-rectus: vewr varena = kar yağıyor --AliErsoy 15:46, 10 Çele 2009 (UTC)


We also favor the Northern/Southern Izafe-System because we have not historic sources about this genus-izafe-system. So we took the izafe-system of the majority. So why we should make at the feminine-suffix an exception, while only Northern Zazas use this -e? --AliErsoy 15:47, 10 Çele 2009 (UTC)

Ali and Xosere, DAMN IT, STOP WITH ALL THIS NONSENSE!!! You both, only two people can’t decide for all others with your ignorance and ruin so this project completely.
Even if thousands evidence would be brought, you could not understand it, because you have too little knowledge of linguistics. You both should better play elsewhere or go to dig in the sandbox.
I think it is very damn serious. Your infantile game extends gradually, but right now it's enough for all times. --Mirzali 03:15, 11 Çele 2009 (UTC)


Ena pela werênayışi seba mışewrê ravêrberdena Pela Seria.
Bıra u waêne, pela portalê cemaeti ki heqa çiyê bıngey be Wikipediya Zazaki dera. --Mirzali 00:54, 14 Çele 2009 (UTC)

Search results "tı wazeno"Bıvurne

Bırenê, sıma rê zamet, ni qesu raşt kerê:

  • Search results >> Neticey cıgeyrayışi
  • Tı wazeno >> Tı wazenê / wazenay
  • bıvênên yeno manê görün, bulun, hama gereke search, ara bo, yanê cı geyre / sae ke

--Asmen, 2.7.2009, 17:24 (CET)

Asmên, Xosere doesnt mean "arayın", he means "look" in English, so in Turkish "bakınız". So it were in Zazaki: "niya bıdên", "qayd kerên" or "seyr kerên". --AliErsoy 19:30, 5 Temuz 2009 (UTC)


Dear Zazaki friends, I am Iranian (half from Caspian too). I just want to say that I am glad you are keeping your language alive. I can understand it partially. Keep the good word. --Nepaheshgar 22:43, 11 Temuz 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your good wishes. --Xosere 20:55, 12 Temuz 2009 (UTC)


Merhaba (ez zazaki nizanım), şu üstteki menü tuşlarını yanyana getirirseniz daha iyi olacak. Kolay gelsin. (İndeks Kategoriy Textey Cerrebi Yardım Persi)-- 14:37, 2 Tişrino Verên 2009 (UTC)

Small requestBıvurne

Hello! I am a Polish wikipedian and I would like to ask you for your help - writing a new article about former Polish President who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1983 – Lech Wałęsa. I have looked for his biography in your Wikipedia but without success. Polish Wikipedians will be grateful for your help. Thank you so much in advance! PS you can find the English version of the article here. Best wishes from Poland, Patrol110 22:17, 28 Tişrino Verên 2009 (UTC)

m:Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Kurdish 2 WikipediaBıvurne


As a wiki that was once hosted by ku.wikipedia. I'd like to invite members of this wiki to comment on on the RENAME proposal of ku.wikipedia to kmr.wikipedia.

-- とある白い猫 chi? 06:40, 16 Keşkelun 2011 (UTC)

Tertelê dersimîBıvurne

Rojbas hêvalên delal ez tistek heye ji bona we: ev li ser komkujina (tertel) Dersimê. Gelek giran e Archived 2013-08-25 at the Wayback Machine silav û hûrmet--Alsace38 21:10, 26 Tişrino Peyên 2011 (UTC)

Kiteva ZazakiBıvurne

Artik Türkiye Kürtçe okular açmak için Kürtçe kitap hazirladi, türk milli bakanligi iki kitap hazirladi bir zazaca biri kurmancça. Heval artik son nokta bu, kendine iyi bak öpdüm sizi: Indirin ve bakin, Ayrica Bedirxan kürt alfabesi kullanmis saygilarimla --Alsace38 (mesac) 14:30, 17 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Sağol. İndirdim. Kadri Yıldırım Kürtçü ya (ilk sayfalarında yer alan İstiklâl Marşı, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk gölgesinde Kürtçü değilmiş gibi imaj verilmeye çalışılsa da:))). Ondan dolayı bu şekilde tasarlanmıştır. Kurdî-Zazakî başlığının seçilmiş olması Türkiye Cumhuriyeti hükûmetinin yaklaşımı olarak mı algılanabilir ? Yoksa sadece Mardin Artuklu Üniversitesi'nin görüşü mü ? RTÜK-YÖK olayı vardı ya. Takabeg (mesac) 23:50, 17 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)
@Mirzali: bu kitap Zazacanın hangi lehçesine göre yazılıyor ? Takabeg (mesac) 00:20, 18 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)
Yoğun meşguliyet dolayısıyla henüz tam olarak göz atamadım, ama sanırım ağırlıklı olarak Bingöl ağzıyla yazılmış. Ayrıca gözüme çarpan ilk bir şey de Kürtçe ek ve kavramların bilinçli olarak dilin içine karıştırılmasıdır. Bunun siyasi yönü malum. Örnek olarak Zazaca'da baş (iyi) sözcüğü bulunmaz. Bunun yerine rınd veya xêr sözcükleri mevcuttur. Mirzali (mesac)
a a Takabegcim, milli egitim bakanligi yayinliyor bu kitapi, milli egitim bakanligi erdogan dahil bu yetkiyi vermis , ondan yayinlanmis. kürtçü mü degir mi, umurumda degir, anladin? Ayrica bunu söylemek için, neden olmasin, wikipedia kânunlarina göre dediklerinin kaynalarini ver, hangi gazete ve arastirmaci diyor ki, Kadri Yildirim Kürt¨çu dür, veya kendi insiyatifine göre hareket etmis? Artik masallar bitmis bunu kabul etmelisiniz, kurdistan welate ma o. Tamam? --Alsace38 (mesac) 13:58, 18 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Alsace38, seninle yakında ilgilenecem.-- 20:24, 18 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Taraflı görüşlere karşı olsa bile külür edilmemelidir. Sonuçta Ders kitabı Mardin Artuklu Üniversitesi'nin ve Milli Eğitim Bakanlığı onları onayladıysa şu anki Milli Eğitim Bakanlığı'nın görüşü olarak ele alınabilir. Zazaca'da mevcut olmayan ve Kürtçeye özgü kelimeler ve ifadeler sokulmuş bir nevi a la Kurda Zazacası olsa da. Bildiğimiz gibi aynı Milli Eğitim Bakanlığıan göre, İskitler, Sakalar Türk Archived 2012-07-27 at the Wayback Machinetür. Yani Milli Eğitim Bakanlığı'nın görüşlerin kesin ve doğru bilgi olarak kabul edilmemekte olduğu ortadadır. Yine de bir görüş olarak kayda değer olduğunu düşünür ve eleştiriler ve halatarıyla birlikte ele alınsın. Devletin bütçesiyle Kürtçülüğünün aşılanmakta olmasına çok merak ediyorum. Bu açıdan, Milli Eğitim Bakanlığı, Türkiye'nin siyasetini ve Kürt milliyetçiliğini araştıranlara ilginç bir malzeme temim etmiş oluyor. Takabeg (mesac) 22:44, 18 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Küfürü sildiğin için sağol Takabeg dostum. Gerçekten de üzülecek bir durum. Başka argüman bulamayan biri ancak klavye arkasına gizlenip böyle münasebetsiz laf edebilir. Ben şahsen farklı görüşte olsam da, hiç kimse küfrü ve hakareti hakketmez. Bunu bilginize sunarım arkadaşlar. -Mirzali (mesac)
evet bir kisi bana bu mesaji wiki kurdî de yazmis, galiba beni öldürmekmi istiyor? Burasi Ergenekon degir, !--Alsace38 (mesac) 10:12, 19 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Wiki kuralları beni bağlamaz veya bağlar bu muhim değil ama duello için anahtar kelime girdin ve seninle ayrıca ilgilenecem.-- 15:51, 19 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)
Beraber yasamak inkansiz!--Alsace38 (mesac) 15:58, 19 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)
Ya bebeğim ben seni niye tehdit edeyim ki, zamanı geldiğinde oturup anlaşırız :D-- 16:24, 19 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)
Tirko, ez te ne nasnakim, ji kerema xwe, biçe, bihere û bê deng be! --Alsace38 (mesac) 18:52, 19 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)
Takabeg, arkadasina söyle, buralarda bizlere tehdit savunmasin: ne yapmaya çalisiyorsunuz? wiki bir özgür ve parasiz bir kurumdur, politik ve tirko propagandasini yapmayin burda! --Alsace38 (mesac) 18:59, 19 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)
Fransiz istibaratina göre , birinci ve ikinci mesaj Ankara "Kurtulus ve Kolej metro" stasyonlar arasinda--Alsace38 (mesac) 19:09, 19 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Şehir maddelerin başlıklarıBıvurne

Selam. Zazaca Wikipediasında da şehir/ilçe adlarından başlığının sadeleştirilmesi yani sûke, bacar gibi eklerin kaldırılırsa uygun olacaktır. Örneğin, Ağrı (sûke) yerine Ağrı. Zira maddede hem şehir (Ağrı (bacar) ? Ağrı (sûke) ?), hem de merkez ilçesi Ağrı (qeza) anlatılmaktadır. Ayrıca, interwikilerine bakıldığında büyük bir çoğunluğu Ağrı. Az sayıda istisnalardan olan Holandaca Wikipediyasında ise Ağrı (stad) seçilmektedir. Fakat Hollandaca Wikipediasında Zaza Wikipediasındakiyle farklı olarak nl:Ağrı (stad) maddesinin dışında nl:Ağrı (district) maddesi de mevcutur. Zazaca Wikipediasinda ise qeza maddesiyle şehir (veya kasaba) maddesi aynıdır. Sûke olsa da bacar olsada Ağrı başlığı seçilirse tartışma çıkmaz. Yani gereksiz tartışma (suke-sûke-bacar tartışması gibi)'nın çıkmasını önlemek için de madde başlığının Ağrı olması faydalı olacaktır. Takabeg (mesac) 23:36, 19 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)


Selam. Kategoriye:Bestere'de bir sürü telif haklarını ihlal eden dosyalar, içeriği bomboş olan maddeler yer almaktadırlar. Bunların dışında da bestere şalbonuyla işaret edilmedikleri için henüz bu kategoriye alınmamış yine telif haklarını ihlal eden dosyalar ve boş maddeler mevcuttur. Herşeyden önce hizmetlilerin (Wikipedia:İdarekari (Karber:Asmen, Karber:Belekvor, Karber:Mirzali, Karber:Xosere) halletmeleri gereken iştir. Takabeg (mesac) 00:10, 20 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Çifte kategoriler ?Bıvurne

Şunların aynı kategori değil mi ? Belki farklı fonksyonları vardır da o zaman ne gibi farklılık var acaba ?

Takabeg (mesac) 00:50, 20 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)


Marmara ile ilgili olarak Marmara Bölgesi'nin Zazacası Mıntıqê Marmara mı acaba ? Zazacaya hakim olan arkadaşlar, şu kategorileri Zazacalaştırabilir misiniz ?

Takabeg (mesac) 04:58, 23 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Uğraş ve katkıların için çok teşekkür ediyorum Takabeg dostum. - Mirzali (mesac)
You are welcome.

Şunların Zazacası nedir?Bıvurne


Takabeg (mesac) 01:36, 25 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)



  • Eskeriye = Military service, Askerlik
    • Eskeriya Usmani = Military service of Osman, Osman'ın askerliği
  • Eskeriya = Military, Askeriye
    • Eskeriyaya Usmanıcan = Military of Ottomans, Osmanlı'nın askeriyesi
- Mirzali (mesac)
Merci. Takabeg (mesac) 00:13, 27 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Herb u cengiBıvurne

Takabeg (mesac) 01:54, 25 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)


Takabeg (mesac) 00:13, 27 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

şar = people
şarê ... -e [feminine] (Pêrtage), -i/-y [masculine] (Xozati / Paliy) = People of/from (Pêrtage, Xozat/Pali)

- Mirzali (mesac)

Merci. Ancak "Merdumê X" ile "Şarê X" arasındaki fark nedir ? Merdumê Tırkiya mı uygun yoksa Şarê Tırkiya mı ? Takabeg (mesac) 01:19, 27 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

merdum = man, human being (adam, insan)
şar (xelq) = the common people, folk (halk)

- Mirzali (mesac)

Hmm. O zaman Tırki (şar) doğru mu ? Tırk mı doğrusu ? People of Turkey için Kategoriye:Şarê Tırkiya kullandım. Etnik Türk için Tırk (en:Turkish people, İngilizce Vikide terslik mevcut olup en:Category:Turkish people, her etnik gruplardan Türkiyeliler için kullanılıyor ve etnik grup içinse en:Category:Ethnic Turkish people kullanılıyor. Daha doğrusu Turkish people başlığını değiştirmek istemedikleri için böyle yapmak zorunda kaldık.) kullanılabilir mi ? Birde en:Turkic peoples'ın Zazacası nedir ? Takabeg (mesac) 08:56, 27 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)
Tırk = Türk
Tırki [Tırk + -i (çoğul eki)] = Türkler, Tırki (şar) (people)
Tırki [Tırk + -ki (sıfat eki)] = Türkçe, Tırki (zıwan) (language)
People of Turkey = Kategoriye:Şarê Tırkiya doğrudur. (-ê: ad tamlama eki (eril))
en:Turkish people = Kategoriye:Şaro Tırk (-o: sıfat tamlama eki (eril))
en:Category:Ethnic Turkish people = Kategoriye:Şaro Tırko etnik - Doğrudan doğruya çevirilse öyledir ama bu kategorinin kullanılması doğru değildir. Zira İngilizce Vikideki durumda zorlama var. Aslında Turks fakat İngilizce Vikide hem etnik Türkler için hem de Türk (TC) vatandaşları için Turkish people kullanıldığından ortaya çıkan sorunun çözülmesinden dolayı mecburen Ethnic Turkish people seçtik. Zazaca Vikide de Commonsta olduğu gibi Turks (Türkler) ve People of Turkey (Türkiyeli)'nin kullanılmasını doğru buluyorum. Takabeg (mesac) 13:17, 27 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)
Türkiyeli = Tırkiyayıc
en:Turkic peoples - Kategoriye:Şaro Turki (Dikkat! u ile)
Bu konuyu bıra Asmên ile konuştum. Onun demesine göre şarın daha ziyade "el" (halk, ahali) için kullanılır olduğudur. Bunun yerine mılet (ulus) kullanılması daha uygun olurdu. Ancak, İngilizce'de de people kullanılmıştır, nation değil. Sen ne dersin buna?

- Mirzali (mesac)

İngilizce Vikideki çelişkili durumu kısaca şöyle:

en:Turkish people => en:Category:Ethnic Turkish people Zazaca Viki: Tırki (şar) ve Kategoriye:Tırkan ?

People of Turkey => en:Category:Turkish people Zazaca Viki: Şarê Tırkiya ve Kategoriye:Şarê Tırkiya

Takabeg (mesac) 13:20, 27 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Persi (... nedir?, ... doğru mu?) uêb.Bıvurne

O zaman bu kategorinin iptal edilmesi lazım. Zira bu kategori NPOV'a aykırıdır. Takabeg (mesac) 13:08, 27 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC) -   Temam Mirzali (mesac)


1. Dersim şarktan kısmen Peri suyu, şimalden Munzur silsilesi, garbden Fırat nehri, cenubdan da Murat suyu ile tahdit edilmiştir.

2. İdarî taksimata göre hudutları şimalde Erzincan'ın Merkez ve kemah kazaları ile, şimali şarkide Tercan; şarkta kısmen Palu, Kiğı, garbda kemaliye, Arapkir, cenubda da kısmen Palu ve Elâzığ merkez ve Keban kazaları ile birleşir. 3. 11: 12 tuli şarkî ve 10:11 tuli garbî ve 43:44 arz dereceleri arasındadır.

Murtaza ile Gevher'in oğlu olarak dünyaya geldi. Mekteb-i Harbiye Aşiret Sınıfından mezun olduktan sonra Osmanlı Ordusuna katıldı. 22 nci Süvari Alayı, 16 ncı Aşiret Hafif Süvari Alayı bölüğü, Aşiret Süvari Müfettişliği, 2 nci Karakilise Fırkası, 14 ncü Alay Bölük komutanlığı, İhtiyat Süvari 6 ncı Alayı gibi birliklerde görevlendirildikten sonra Van Askerlik Şubesi Başkanlığına getirildi. Süvari Binbaşlığına kadar yükseltildi. Osmanlı Meclis Mebûsan Dördüncü Dönem Dersim Mebusu olarak seçildiyse de İstanbul'a gitmeyip Ankara'daki Büyük Millet Meclisi'ne Dersim Mebusu olarak seçildi. Evli olup üç çocuk sahibiydi.

  • en:Inspectorates-General (Turkey)
    • Dördüncü Umumi Müfettişlik'in Zazacası nedir? = Mıfetışiya Çeharına Pêroyiye
    • Üçüncü Ordu (Türkiye) = Ordiyê Hirêyıne ya da Ordiyê Hirêyına Tırkiya
    • Türkiye Cumhuriyeti Genelkurmay Başkanı = Serekê Erkanê Pêroyiya Cumhuriyetê Tırkiya
    • Türkiye Cumhuriyeti Genelkurmay Başkanlığı = Serekiya Erkanê Pêroyiya Cumhuriyetê Tırkiya
    • 25 Aralık 1935 tarih ve 2884 sayılı Tunceli Vilayeti'nin İdaresi Hakkında Kanun = Heqa İdareyê Wılayetê Dêsımi de Qanuno ke tarixê 25 Kanun 1935 de be numreyê 2884 vıraziyayo

Çok sağolun. Birde "Umumi Müfettişler Toplantı" lütfen. Takabeg (mesac) 10:58, 29 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

"Umumi Müfettişler Toplantısı" = Pêserameyışê Mıfetışanê Pêroyiyan Takabeg (mesac)

Takabeg (mesac) 09:08, 25 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Sorunlu kategoriler, sorunlu maddelerBıvurne

Şu kategorilerde yer alan maddeler sorunludur.

Takabeg (mesac) 11:10, 27 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)


Burada yazdığımız gibi とある白い猫'ya botu kullanma iznin verilmesi Zazaca Wikipediası için faydalı olacağını düşünüyorum. Özellikle kategorileri düzeltme işlerde (mesela Kategoriye:Nuskarê Zazay -> Kategoriye:Nuştekarê Zazayan gibi) yardımcı olacaktır. Takabeg (mesac) 02:58, 28 Tişrino Verên 2012 (UTC)

Mehmet Şerif FıratBıvurne

Şu an File:Mehmet Şerif Fırat.jpg silinmeye aday gösterilmektedir. A ve B ve diger fotolar (Gerç foto A oldukça eski) için ORTS iznini almak için Archived 2012-11-28 at the Wayback Machine yazarı ile temasa geçebilenler var mı ? Telif hak sahibi, fotoğrafların kamu malı olduklarını ilan ederse güzel, olmazsa telif haklarını terketmeden fotoğrafların herkes tarafından serbestçe kullanılabileceğini belirtmek de olabilir. Takabeg (mesac) 22:26, 28 Tişrino Verên 20